Hockey Fan Forums banner

21 - 40 of 56 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,032 Posts
gordfish said:
One interesting UFA possibilty would be Mike Peca. He'd likely have to take a bit of a paycut to come here, but considering how poorly things have gone for him in Edmonton, he might be willing to sign here for three to three and a half million. That would give Nonis a lot more leeway when trading Morrison, Bert and Naslund.

How about Naslund to Philadelphia for Steve Downie and Ben Eager? Then see if Gretzky is willing to do a Bertuzzi and Cloutier for Shane Doan swap.

That leaves Brendan Morrison to dangle for a left winger. Considering how much Holland likes Brendan Morrison, I bet if you offered him Morrison for Holmstrom and a draft pick he'd bite.

Daniel / Henrik / Carter
Holmstrom / Peca / Doan
Cooke / Kesler / Downie
Burrows / Green / Ruutu
Eager

No definitive first line there, more of a 1a and 1b approach, which allows for the ice time to be more evenly distributed.

Of course, that changes the team's philosophy from pressuring the puck to a more responsible approach in all three zones, so maybe at that point you do get rid of Crawford and offer the job to Brent Sutter.
Peca is the last thing this team needs, he is having an awful year which is the result of a career headed downwards fast. His playoff numbers have been awful since Buffalo's run to the playoffs. In his last 20 playoff games he has 1 goal and 1 assist and is -8. Pretty crappy numbers. Talk about a career with so much promise that nevery really materialised.

And replacing Morrison Bertuzzi and Naslund with Peca Holmstrom and Doan does not sound very appetising. The Canucks should have some extra bling to spend this offseason with Jovo vacating and most likely the bloated salaries of Bertuzzi, Morrison, and Cloutier on their way out. If they can sign one or two decent dmen (Carney being one hopefully), they should have plenty of capital to either keep Naslund and sign two other high rank forwards or get rid of the entire top line and sign three high rank forwards. At this point I think it may be wise to hang on to Naslund as opposed to gutting the entire first line, although I won't be shedding too many tears if he does nothing again this year before being shipped out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,057 Posts
Bob Burns said:
Peca is the last thing this team needs, he is having an awful year which is the result of a career headed downwards fast. His playoff numbers have been awful since Buffalo's run to the playoffs. In his last 20 playoff games he has 1 goal and 1 assist and is -8. Pretty crappy numbers. Talk about a career with so much promise that nevery really materialised.

And replacing Morrison Bertuzzi and Naslund with Peca Holmstrom and Doan does not sound very appetising. The Canucks should have some extra bling to spend this offseason with Jovo vacating and most likely the bloated salaries of Bertuzzi, Morrison, and Cloutier on their way out. If they can sign one or two decent dmen (Carney being one hopefully), they should have plenty of capital to either keep Naslund and sign two other high rank forwards or get rid of the entire top line and sign three high rank forwards. At this point I think it may be wise to hang on to Naslund as opposed to gutting the entire first line, although I won't be shedding too many tears if he does nothing again this year before being shipped out.
Maybe Burnsy, but remember people were saying the same thing about Anson Carter...Peca may not be a legit number one centre, but I think he brings things at centre that are exactly what they need. Face-off ability, goes to the net hard, plays physical.

Personally, I don't think the fans of this team need to see a high-flying, high-octane offensive team here to fill the building and keep their interest. Just look at the two most heralded players in this franchise's history, Trevor Linden and Stan Smyl. As long as the team works hard and gets results, they could play any style short of Jacque Lemaire's Monkey-Puck and the fans here will flock to the arena. In other words, a Holmstrom / Peca / Doan line may not be as 'sexy' as the WCE can be, but it's a line that will work hard in all areas of the ice and IMO, make them a tougher to team to play against and a better post-season team.

How many players from the Wings, Avs and Devils over the last 15 years have won the Art Ross Trophy? In other words, you don't need to be one of the most dominating offensive teams in the league to win the Stanley Cup. I think it is high time this team sacrificed some of that offense and scoring skill to become a team that is more evenly balanced and thus, better suited to endure an 82 game schedule and a long play-off run.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,442 Posts
gordfish said:
How many players from the Wings, Avs and Devils over the last 15 years have won the Art Ross Trophy?
i'm not saying this just for the sake of arguing, but the avs have consistently had someone in the top five in points and goals for the last fifteen years. sakic and forsberg have, when healthy, always been top ten, if not top five, scorers. and, in recent years, hejduk and tanguay have been top ten guys too. the wings had shanahan in the top five in goals during their glory years and now have datsyuk in the top ten in points. my point is that only one of the teams you mentioned, new jersey, has been without a dominating point producer (though elias has been damn good) and, of course, new jersey fans won't even fill the stadium for a championship team. i think vancouver is a different kind of hockey city and will embrace a team as long as it's either exciting or winning, but you're never going to equal brian burke's sellout streak set that started just as the WCE began to dominate. vancouver is hockey mad, but they're also not the same kinds of fans you find in calgary. and, while smyl and linden (and, arguably, mclean) are the most beloved players in canucks history, no one was ever bigger than pavel was during his 60 goal years. smyl played here a long time but it's not like he was the most popular player every second he was in vancouver. it's guys like patrik sundstrom, petri skriko, and king richard that capture the fans' imagination.

as for peca, i love the guy. he's been one of my favourite players since his rookie season in vancouver, but i think he's just kidding himself when he says he wants a bigger role than third line center. the desire is still there, but the hands and speed are nowhere close to what they used to be. unless he signs for a million a year to center cooke and ruutu, with the expectation that, if kesler doesn't develop into a legit #2 center that peca will eventually take over linden's spot on the fourth line, i'll pass. i like henrik sedin, but i don't see him repeating this season without naslund's line drawing the tough checking assignments away from the sedins and carter.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,661 Posts
This is more of a random thought post, but I'll throw some things out there. Doug Weight could possibly hit the free agent market his offseason (unless he resigns with Carolina). He's a solid playmaking veteran with an edge to his game, and would complement Naslund very well. Take a run at him if he hits the market, or if he signs with Carolina, send Bertuzzi (and possibly a pick) to the Canes for Weight and Justin Williams (he's not a dominant offensive guy, but he's fast and energetic).

Another guy I think they should take a look at is Wes Walz in Minnesota. Obviously not for the top line, but as a third liner, maybe with Cooke and Kesler. So you'd have a forward lineup something like this:

Naslund/Weight/Williams
D. Sedin/H. Sedin/Carter
Cooke/Kesler/Walz
Burrows/Green/Ruutu

Two more unrealistic names I'm going to throw out there are Pavol Demitra and Brad Richards. I know it would probably take a lot to get either one of those guys, but they're both #1 center material. The Bolts may have a hard time keeping Lecavalier, Richards, and St. Louis, so Richards could be available (although if I was Feaster, I'd dump St. Louis well before Richards). Not sure what kind of package it would take to lure them into moving him, but it's worth taking a look at. Maybe they could get the Bolts to throw Sydor in the deal as well? Demitra is obviously one of the Kings' best players, so his availability is probably pretty low. Like Richards, it would probably take a pretty good package deal to get him.

I don't know what the market is like for Morrison, Bertuzzi, or Jovanovski, but I think all three of them need to go, mainly because of lack of production for big money. Getting rid of those three opens up a lot of cap space to spend on a #1 center.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,429 Posts
Discussion Starter #25
MadDevil said:
This is more of a random thought post, but I'll throw some things out there. Doug Weight could possibly hit the free agent market his offseason (unless he resigns with Carolina). He's a solid playmaking veteran with an edge to his game, and would complement Naslund very well. Take a run at him if he hits the market, or if he signs with Carolina, send Bertuzzi (and possibly a pick) to the Canes for Weight and Justin Williams (he's not a dominant offensive guy, but he's fast and energetic).

Another guy I think they should take a look at is Wes Walz in Minnesota. Obviously not for the top line, but as a third liner, maybe with Cooke and Kesler. So you'd have a forward lineup something like this:

Naslund/Weight/Williams
D. Sedin/H. Sedin/Carter
Cooke/Kesler/Walz
Burrows/Green/Ruutu

Two more unrealistic names I'm going to throw out there are Pavol Demitra and Brad Richards. I know it would probably take a lot to get either one of those guys, but they're both #1 center material. The Bolts may have a hard time keeping Lecavalier, Richards, and St. Louis, so Richards could be available (although if I was Feaster, I'd dump St. Louis well before Richards). Not sure what kind of package it would take to lure them into moving him, but it's worth taking a look at. Maybe they could get the Bolts to throw Sydor in the deal as well? Demitra is obviously one of the Kings' best players, so his availability is probably pretty low. Like Richards, it would probably take a pretty good package deal to get him.

I don't know what the market is like for Morrison, Bertuzzi, or Jovanovski, but I think all three of them need to go, mainly because of lack of production for big money. Getting rid of those three opens up a lot of cap space to spend on a #1 center.
Nice post Devil

However, I am disapointed..you didn't once mention Friesen :wink
Anyway, I really like the idea of Walz. This guy has speed, leadership, and is great on the PK. A classic canuck killer. He is a perfect 3rd liner.

Also, I like Weight..But, does he have enough gas left in the tank? Another name you mentioned earlier..Halpern..should also be considered. Probably not for first line duties..but he would make an excellent third liner, and relief first liner. He's also a UFA

I really think Bertuzzi has to go, as does Morrison. However, I'm not sure on Jovo. This guy has character, and passion. Sure, he makes mistakes with the puck. BUT..here is my arguement..he has never been paired with a rock solid stay at home defenseman. Pair him with Carney, and give it a try. See how it goes. Ofcourse, if he is asking for too much..let him go
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,057 Posts
TimmyTabasco said:
Nice post Devil

However, I am disapointed..you didn't once mention Friesen :wink
Anyway, I really like the idea of Walz. This guy has speed, leadership, and is great on the PK. A classic canuck killer. He is a perfect 3rd liner.

Also, I like Weight..But, does he have enough gas left in the tank? Another name you mentioned earlier..Halpern..should also be considered. Probably not for first line duties..but he would make an excellent third liner, and relief first liner. He's also a UFA

I really think Bertuzzi has to go, as does Morrison. However, I'm not sure on Jovo. This guy has character, and passion. Sure, he makes mistakes with the puck. BUT..here is my arguement..he has never been paired with a rock solid stay at home defenseman. Pair him with Carney, and give it a try. See how it goes. Ofcourse, if he is asking for too much..let him go
And this all gets back to point I'm trying to make. Look, no one has shouted louder and longer that they need a legit number one centre...but right now, who would that be? If they keep Naslund, their best bet is likely Sundin, which is another huge salary commitment that ties their hands cap-wise. Another option might be Primeau in Philadelphia. And then of course, I believe Malkin goes back into the draft if the Pens don't get him signed by June 1. They could try and strike a deal with Pittsburgh if they think they can get Malkin signed.

I agree with PB that the Sedins aren't likely to repeat this season when drawing the best defensive pairings and penalty killers on a full time basis, but I also think it's highly unlikely that they are going to get what we perceive to be equal value in return for Naslund, Morrison and Bertuzzi. And there just won't be much available in terms of top line talent available on FA market.

I'd like to see them convert the WCE into a line that compliments the Sedin line a little more. One that is more capable in both ends of the ice and one that can be just as successful in the danger zones (ie the slot, the corners) as it is on the perimeter. And of course, they desperately need a quality face-off man. And whoever does come in to replace Morrison will need to have size.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,429 Posts
Discussion Starter #27
How about Getzlaf..in some sort of a deal for Bertuzzi?

Source

Getzlaf led the WHL Calgary Hitmen with 29 goals and 25 assists for 54 points, despite missing 21 games. Getzlaf had seven power-play goals and two shorthanded tallies.

"Getzlaf is a very naturally gifted athlete. When we tested his natural strength, he rated very highly in his peer group," Fletcher said. "He has a great vertical jump and he's a good runner. He will be a very big man. We project he'll play at 6-foot-3 and 215 pounds. As he continues to gain strength and fill out, he should be a powerful player. That great size is a tremendous complement to his skill level.

"He has very soft hands. The size, the skill, the good hands, give him the potential to be a very good offensive player. We see him as the NHL prototype power forward. That's a hard commodity to find."

"Getzlaf is going to be a big, strong power forward, a center iceman with very good skills and offensive instincts," Director of Player Personnel Tim Murray. said. "He showed that when he played with better players in the World Juniors. I think he rose to the occasion and showed at a higher level what kind of player he is going to be."
Source

Getzlaf is a underrated physical forward with a multitude of offensive and defensive skills. He's a sturdy skater with a powerful shot and is a force in traffic. He plays a smart, puck-possesion game and is determined to do most anything to win.


He has upgraded his strength and intensity in the past few summers but still could add more muscle. He needs to work on his positioning, both offensively and defensively and also the accuracy of his booming heavy shot. He would also be much more effective if he added another half-step of quickness.
"Ryan is a highly skilled, versatile forward who can play a multitude of positions. He sees the ice well and has a great shot." - former Calgary head coach Bruno Campese
Source

This would be a step to create a solid 1b line to compliment the twins line. Plus, down the line..Getzlaf could center a top line.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,057 Posts
OK, I think I've got it...they resign Jovanovski and make him the number one centre...

As for Getzalf, I don't think Burke would give him up for Bertuzzi...he has Ryan in the wings already. Naslund might get it done, but then, do you trade him in your own conference?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,429 Posts
Discussion Starter #29
gordfish said:
As for Getzalf, I don't think Burke would give him up for Bertuzzi...he has Ryan in the wings already. Naslund might get it done, but then, do you trade him in your own conference?
I'm not sure. The Ducks have a lot of young players, and you know how much Burke likes Bertuzzi.

Horton would be ideal, but I don't see that happening..due to his very good season. Unless ofcourse Keenan decides he REALLY wants Bertuzzi.

Getzlaf seems to the kind of player this team needs. But..not so sure Burke would bite
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,403 Posts
gordfish said:
OK, I think I've got it...they resign Jovanovski and make him the number one centre...

As for Getzalf, I don't think Burke would give him up for Bertuzzi...he has Ryan in the wings already. Naslund might get it done, but then, do you trade him in your own conference?
The departed Yoata used to argue that Jovo was really the Canucks power forward.:haha: If Burkie made another deal of that calibre with the Canucks the cries of incest would be heard throughout the hockey world.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,429 Posts
Discussion Starter #31
gordfish said:
As for Getzalf, I don't think Burke would give him up for Bertuzzi...he has Ryan in the wings already. Naslund might get it done, but then, do you trade him in your own conference?
That would be a huge overpayment..

If you trade Naslund, you get a top 10 scorer in return..or you don't trade Naslund
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,429 Posts
Discussion Starter #32
KB in Kelowna said:
If Burkie made another deal of that calibre with the Canucks the cries of incest would be heard throughout the hockey world.
I'm not so sure

Look at selanne, and how well he is playing in Anaheim

Bertuzzi COULD play like his old game in Anaheim. Remember, no one cares about Anaheim..no pressure
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,661 Posts
The thing about Vancouver is that I think they have to make a decision. Do they try to retool with other veteran players, or do they scrap the whole thing and start over? With Naslund, Morrison, Bertuzzi, Jovanovski, Carney, Weinrich, Linden and others, the Canucks aren't getting any younger. Beyond the Sedins, Kesler, Burrows, and Allen, how many young players do the Canucks have that are NHL ready?

I'm not necessarily saying they should completely start over, but if they do decide to go that route, don't half-ass it by bringing in more veterans. If they do rebuild, get rid of Morrison, Bertuzzi, Linden, Carney, and Weinrich (maybe Naslund and others) and get some young talent in return. Naslund, Bertuzzi, and Jovanovski are the only three players that are probably going to get a good return. I don't know how many teams want Morrison (unless he takes less money) or Linden (unless he too takes less money). Carney and Weinrich might get decent returns, but nothing that's going to be a huge part of the Canucks' future.

The problem with Vancouver management is that they seem to be content with mediocrity. They don't address major needs (at least until injuries catch up with them), they don't seem to aggressively go after some of the bigger names out there (very few players are truly untouchable anymore). The teams that have been most successful in the last decade or so (Detroit, New Jersey, Colorado, Dallas) don't just sit around when they need to address a weakness, or when they feel they need to "shake up" their rosters. They get out there and aggressively pursue the moves they feel are necessary. Until somebody in charge in Vancouver gets really aggressive in pursuing a championship, the Canucks will be an annual first or second round exit team.

:twocentsi
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,057 Posts
MadDevil said:
The thing about Vancouver is that I think they have to make a decision. Do they try to retool with other veteran players, or do they scrap the whole thing and start over? With Naslund, Morrison, Bertuzzi, Jovanovski, Carney, Weinrich, Linden and others, the Canucks aren't getting any younger. Beyond the Sedins, Kesler, Burrows, and Allen, how many young players do the Canucks have that are NHL ready?

I'm not necessarily saying they should completely start over, but if they do decide to go that route, don't half-ass it by bringing in more veterans. If they do rebuild, get rid of Morrison, Bertuzzi, Linden, Carney, and Weinrich (maybe Naslund and others) and get some young talent in return. Naslund, Bertuzzi, and Jovanovski are the only three players that are probably going to get a good return. I don't know how many teams want Morrison (unless he takes less money) or Linden (unless he too takes less money). Carney and Weinrich might get decent returns, but nothing that's going to be a huge part of the Canucks' future.

The problem with Vancouver management is that they seem to be content with mediocrity. They don't address major needs (at least until injuries catch up with them), they don't seem to aggressively go after some of the bigger names out there (very few players are truly untouchable anymore). The teams that have been most successful in the last decade or so (Detroit, New Jersey, Colorado, Dallas) don't just sit around when they need to address a weakness, or when they feel they need to "shake up" their rosters. They get out there and aggressively pursue the moves they feel are necessary. Until somebody in charge in Vancouver gets really aggressive in pursuing a championship, the Canucks will be an annual first or second round exit team.

:twocentsi
Thank-you. I've been saying the same thing for years. Nonis has always liked to use the Detroit Red Wings as the team to point to when people have questioned why he and Burke stayed so loyal to virtually the same group year after year. But I keep pointing out that the Wings made constant significant changes to the core until they got it right. Chris Chelios, Brendan Shanahan, Igor Larionov, Mike Vernon. And then they kept making changes to try and stay on top. Brett Hull, Luc Robitaille, Dominic Hasek, Mathieu Schneider.

But as I recall, before this year, whenever I proposed a change to the core, I was shot down for 'blowing up the team'. Now the team is going to be 'blown up' anyway, and exactly what I warned everyone about would happen, did. They could have chosen to deal from strength and make these deals while they were on top and not desperate, but of course no one listened to ol' Gordo then. After all, I've only been watching and studying how teams win Stanley Cups for thirty years. What the hell do I know?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,442 Posts
look at ottawa. they're missing their three best defencemen, as well as havlat, right now. are they in a tailspin? no, because they have depth. the roster we began the season with, even with the lack of experience on the bottom d pair, could have contended. but it could have contended only if the entire team stayed healthy all year. nonis was content to begin the year with a roster that was good enough only if nothing whatsoever went wrong... only if everything went exactly according to plan. obviously, it didn't and it's going to take at least three more wins and a bit of luck to make the playoffs.

think of how good this team could have been if nonis hadn't resigned morrison and cloutier and used that money to pick up yanic perreault (who wasn't even signed when the season began) and sean brown (seeing as how he signed for the minimum in nj, we probably could have had him all year for $50,000 more). and we'd still have almost $5 million left to go after a legit first line center. that center could easily have been michael nylander, for example. it also could have been brian rolston, who i was calling for before he signed with the cult. you don't think pavol demitra would have signed here instead of LA for the same $4.5 a year for the chance to play between naslund and bert? and we'd still have the right to morrison and cloutier to trade for picks or spare parts like we did with sopel. what nonis did at the trade deadline was necessary but, seeing as how he did something only when his job was on the line, it doesn't impress me one bit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,429 Posts
Discussion Starter #36
pavelbure said:
look at ottawa. they're missing their three best defencemen, as well as havlat, right now. are they in a tailspin? no, because they have depth. .
Haven't they lost three straight games, and four of the last five? ;)

Thru their last 10 games, they are 4-4-2

Perrault is a faceoff wizard, but he is like tissue paper..crumples under pressure. The Canucks would have needed someone with more an edge

Demitra is very good, but pitiful on faceoffs..almost as bad as Morrison.

We will have to see what happens next year.

What about Conroy? He's a decent playmaker..who is alright on faceoffs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,442 Posts
timmy, you're right. i noticed ottawa had been losing a few more recently, but not that many. lucky for them redden and chara were back in the lineup tonight.

but i've got an idea for the canucks: trade bert and naslund for good young players (e.g. richards, frolov, lupul), trade morrison for anything usable, dump cloutier for anything at all, resign jovo, and then open the vault for patrik elias. he's everything bert and naslund aren't: proven winner, clutch scorer, solid defensively, always plays like it matters, and he doesn't need a legit number one center to dominate. after all that, there should still be plenty of money left over for a quality third line center and two veteran defencemen. unlikely, but that's what i want to see.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,429 Posts
Discussion Starter #38
pavelbure said:
but i've got an idea for the canucks: trade bert and naslund for good young players (e.g. richards, frolov, lupul), trade morrison for anything usable, dump cloutier for anything at all, resign jovo, and then open the vault for patrik elias. he's everything bert and naslund aren't: proven winner, clutch scorer, solid defensively, always plays like it matters, and he doesn't need a legit number one center to dominate. after all that, there should still be plenty of money left over for a quality third line center and two veteran defencemen. unlikely, but that's what i want to see.
You have some good ideas here

But, would Elias want to sign in vancouver? Remember, this would be a team in quite a state of disarray.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,057 Posts
TimmyTabasco said:
You have some good ideas here

But, would Elias want to sign in vancouver? Remember, this would be a team in quite a state of disarray.
Hey, I know...sign Elias, trade Bertuzzi to the NY Rangers for Peter Sykora, and then trade Morrison to Dallas for Jason Arnott. That leaves Naslund and Cloutier to trade for defensmen and third liners. :0pouce:

But seriously, think how different things would look had Nonis had the nuts to sign Scott Neidermayer. With Scott here and Rob a guarantee for next year, Vancouver might have looked a lot more attractive to Elias. Certainly if Schaeffer has interest in coming back, the third line would look a lot better...

Schaeffer / R. Neidermayer / Cooke

And signing Elias would have allowed the Canucks to dangle all three of the WCE for a quality number one centre...

Once again, Canuck managment fumble the ball on the 1 yard line...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,442 Posts
like every other player in the league, he'll sign if you overpay. i can think of no other UFA in recent years that i'd be more willing to overpay for. would elias come to vancouver for naslund money? i think so. holik left a contending team in nj to go to the friggin' rangers. khabibulin left the defending champs to babysit chicago's defencemen. guys like niedermayer and sakic, who had been with franchises so long you couldn't imagine them anywhere else signed on the dotted line when enough money was thrown at them. of course, colorado did the smart thing and matched. this mess can be salvaged. we'll have plenty of dough to throw at elias, who won't command anywhere near a max salary anyways, after we dump the entire WCE and cloutier.
 
21 - 40 of 56 Posts
Top