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canadianinput said:
??? what did you expect his +/- to be? do you forget he plays for the atlanta thrashers?
Heatley is good but he is overrated. On a defensively responsible (i.e. winning) team, like Minnesota, he would be required to look after business in his own end too. Luckily for him, flash sells (some) tickets in Georgia. IMO
 

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I don't think that looking at +/- is a very good way of judging defensive abilities.. It's a decent system, one of the few good things the NHL came up with until just a few years ago, but it's not a great indicator of defensive talent. The only way to get a plus is to be on the ice for a non-PP goal.

So what we have is a "defensive system" that rewards offence and punishes for being scored against. That's fine, and it's instructive to a point, but it's not great for telling us who the best defensive players are, since they'll either have to be big scorers, or be one the ice with them.

If nothing else, +/- MUST be adjusted for it to make any sense, on a team by team level.

Daryl
 

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Daryl Shilling said:
I don't think that looking at +/- is a very good way of judging defensive abilities.. It's a decent system, one of the few good things the NHL came up with until just a few years ago, but it's not a great indicator of defensive talent. The only way to get a plus is to be on the ice for a non-PP goal.

So what we have is a "defensive system" that rewards offence and punishes for being scored against. That's fine, and it's instructive to a point, but it's not great for telling us who the best defensive players are, since they'll either have to be big scorers, or be one the ice with them.

If nothing else, +/- MUST be adjusted for it to make any sense, on a team by team level.

Daryl
Your correct to a certain extent there Daryl, but if someone plays against the top-lines all the time and his +/- is lousy, it would indicate that they aren't as good a defensive player as perceived and the notion that they play against the top-lines in unbalanced. In Ottawa, Havlat had a great +/- last season, but I still consider him our laziest defensive player. I guess alot of it depends on who you play with. Havlat is fortunate to play usually with players like Fisher and Schaefer(who are more defensive aware) up front and take your pick with Ottawa's defensemen. Purely judging a players' defensive ability to offensive ability is not as black and white as it would appear, so you are right!!!
 
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