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Re: Oiles offer Penner a multi-year deal

These are just moves he did without thinking, your absolutely right it will kill him in the future.
I disagree about the not thinking, he's been plotting in his office for quite some time about what to do to bring his Oilers back to life.
 

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Re: Oiles offer Penner a multi-year deal

I hope Burke let him go... that's a lot of money for an average 2nd liner. Unless Burke has sure that he will be a great player, he should let him go and take the picks...
One thing is for sure, Lowe is not saving money....
 

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Re: Oiles offer Penner a multi-year deal

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=214854&hubname=nhl

I agree with everything Burke says about Lowe, but I don't in any way feel sorry for Burke.

I think Burke will match and deal with being over the cap if Neidermayer returns when Neidermayer makes that decision.

It certainly has some interesting implications, though...

First, if he matches, Sellanne is likely out of their plans unless he's willing to take a paycut and a one year deal...

Secondly, it makes Burke's decision to throw all that money at vets like Giguerre, Schnieder and Bertuzzi a really stupid move. Now he's faced with having to gut his payroll over the next few seasons to keep players like Penner, Getzlaf and Perry around and happy. It won't even take Burke 5 years to destroy what Murray built there.

Lou better get Parise signed on soon...
 

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Re: Oiles offer Penner a multi-year deal


Only thing lou prob wont go over 4 mill everyone knows his cheapness but should not differ from the fact he has built winners on a lower scale.

IMO I think parise will command more then the contracts that penner/roy just signed.

It will be interesting to see how Lou handles it.
 

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Re: Oiles offer Penner a multi-year deal

I agree with Burke. I can see the offer sheet Edmonton gave to Vanek, because he at least broke eighty points and got a whopping 43 goals. But this sheet given to Penner, who didn't even break 50 points whilst on a supremely talented Anaheim Ducks team is absolutely crazy. If I were Burke, I would go with the picks. Penner deserves maybe a max of 3 mil.
 

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Re: Oiles offer Penner a multi-year deal

no one can make an offer for parises because Lou filed for arbitration. And from articles I read around the Vanek ordeal, while a player is in line for arbitration no other team can submit offers. That's why Sather signed Lundy and Avery up for it almost immediately.
 

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Re: Oiles offer Penner a multi-year deal

no one can make an offer for parises because Lou filed for arbitration. And from articles I read around the Vanek ordeal, while a player is in line for arbitration no other team can submit offers. That's why Sather signed Lundy and Avery up for it almost immediately.
when did lou file?

This could surely backfire on him now if it goes to a hearing.
 

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Re: Oiles offer Penner a multi-year deal

Burke would be wise to take the picks and run, IMHO. Don't get me wrong, I think that Penner is certainly a fine young player, but he's definitely the LVP (least valuable player) on the PPG line, and the other two members will need new contracts next summer. If I'm Burke, I save my money for Getzlaf and Perry, hope for Neidermayer to return, and use my own 1st rounder to try to acquire a middle-of-the-road scoring winger to take Penner's place (safe in the knowledge that I have a higher 1st round pick, Edmonton's, in my back pocket).

It won't even take Burke 5 years to destroy what Murray built there.
Off topic, but I think the degree to which Murray "built" the Ducks has been somewhat overblown. Consider:

1 - Neidermayer, Pronger, and Beauchemin were all acquired after he left, and they were the spine of the Stanley Cup winning roster. Worth mentioning that O'Donnell and Jackman were also Burke acquisitions, so pretty much their entire blueline was crafted after Murray left.

2 - At the time of Murray's departure, he was reportedly involved in a bit of a tiff with ownership over the goaltending situation. Apparently, ownership liked Giggy, whereas Murray wanted to dump him because he felt that he was only the 3rd best goalie in the organization behind Gerber and Bryzgalov. Could Gerber or Bryz have backstopped the Ducks to a championship? Well, maybe but we'll never know.

3 - Selanne's return happened after Murray left.

4 - The Sergei Federov signing turned out to be a disaster, and it was Burke who not only cleaned up that mess, but managed to get some very useful players in return for him (Marchant and Beauchemin).

I don't want to take anything away from Murray, he obviously drafted some good young players that became important parts of their championship run, but it's a bit of stretch to say that he "built" the team.
 

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Re: Oiles offer Penner a multi-year deal

Burke would be wise to take the picks and run, IMHO. Don't get me wrong, I think that Penner is certainly a fine young player, but he's definitely the LVP (least valuable player) on the PPG line, and the other two members will need new contracts next summer. If I'm Burke, I save my money for Getzlaf and Perry, hope for Neidermayer to return, and use my own 1st rounder to try to acquire a middle-of-the-road scoring winger to take Penner's place (safe in the knowledge that I have a higher 1st round pick, Edmonton's, in my back pocket).



Off topic, but I think the degree to which Murray "built" the Ducks has been somewhat overblown. Consider:

1 - Neidermayer, Pronger, and Beauchemin were all acquired after he left, and they were the spine of the Stanley Cup winning roster. Worth mentioning that O'Donnell and Jackman were also Burke acquisitions, so pretty much their entire blueline was crafted after Murray left.

2 - At the time of Murray's departure, he was reportedly involved in a bit of a tiff with ownership over the goaltending situation. Apparently, ownership liked Giggy, whereas Murray wanted to dump him because he felt that he was only the 3rd best goalie in the organization behind Gerber and Bryzgalov. Could Gerber or Bryz have backstopped the Ducks to a championship? Well, maybe but we'll never know.

3 - Selanne's return happened after Murray left.

4 - The Sergei Federov signing turned out to be a disaster, and it was Burke who not only cleaned up that mess, but managed to get some very useful players in return for him (Marchant and Beauchemin).

I don't want to take anything away from Murray, he obviously drafted some good young players that became important parts of their championship run, but it's a bit of stretch to say that he "built" the team.
Well, I think he built the foundation while Burke did the finishing.

Neidermayer, I can't credit Burke for. Neidermayer was looking at two places to play as a UFA. Fortunately for Burke, his apprentice foolishly turned Neidermayer down, so that left the Ducks. It was a no-brainer that 99% of the GMs in the league could have pulled off.

The Selanne signing, very similar. No one else would have ponied up a million for Selanne at the time. Burke did it as a PR move, the same as he did with bringing Linden back in Vancouver. It was to sell tickets and get people talking about the Ducks. He won the lottery big time on that move. I don't think even Selanne could have predicted another 40 goal season at that point in his career.

Giguerre, IMO, with Neidermayer and Pronger on defense, they could have won it with Bryzgalov or Gerber. But like you said, we'll never know. I can't recall one game during their run where you could say Giguerre saved the game like Ward did the previous season or stole one the way guys like Luongo and Turco did the past post season. I would have traded him, and I would have let him get his 6 mil per somewhere else this summer and spent that money on Penner, Getzlaf, Perry and Beauchemin.

Beauchemin, who knows how well he'd have worked out without Neidermayer as his partner...I guess we might find out this season.

I'll give Burke credit for one thing, as I always do. As a manager he understands the first principle of successful management and implements it as well as anyone in the league. And that is, surround yourself with the right people and let them do their work. At that, he is a master.

But IMO, he had a solid foundation with which to work with in Anaheim, which Murray provided him with. Had Burke taken the job in Chicago, there is no way he gets a Cup ring.

And I'll stick to my opinion that Burke is making his typically poor personel decisions out of cheap stubbornress by handing ridiculously high contracts to vets like Giguerre, Bertuzzi and Schneider instead of investing that money in the team's future. Had he not knickle and dimed Penner all summer, he wouldn't have left himself open to Lowe's offer sheet to begin with. In many regards, Burke is an old school manager that is about to be left behind by the new economic climate in the NHL.
 

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Re: Oiles offer Penner a multi-year deal

Well, I think he built the foundation while Burke did the finishing.

Neidermayer, I can't credit Burke for. Neidermayer was looking at two places to play as a UFA. Fortunately for Burke, his apprentice foolishly turned Neidermayer down, so that left the Ducks. It was a no-brainer that 99% of the GMs in the league could have pulled off.

The Selanne signing, very similar. No one else would have ponied up a million for Selanne at the time. Burke did it as a PR move, the same as he did with bringing Linden back in Vancouver. It was to sell tickets and get people talking about the Ducks. He won the lottery big time on that move. I don't think even Selanne could have predicted another 40 goal season at that point in his career.

Giguerre, IMO, with Neidermayer and Pronger on defense, they could have won it with Bryzgalov or Gerber. But like you said, we'll never know. I can't recall one game during their run where you could say Giguerre saved the game like Ward did the previous season or stole one the way guys like Luongo and Turco did the past post season. I would have traded him, and I would have let him get his 6 mil per somewhere else this summer and spent that money on Penner, Getzlaf, Perry and Beauchemin.

Beauchemin, who knows how well he'd have worked out without Neidermayer as his partner...I guess we might find out this season.

I'll give Burke credit for one thing, as I always do. As a manager he understands the first principle of successful management and implements it as well as anyone in the league. And that is, surround yourself with the right people and let them do their work. At that, he is a master.

But IMO, he had a solid foundation with which to work with in Anaheim, which Murray provided him with. Had Burke taken the job in Chicago, there is no way he gets a Cup ring.

And I'll stick to my opinion that Burke is making his typically poor personel decisions out of cheap stubbornress by handing ridiculously high contracts to vets like Giguerre, Bertuzzi and Schneider instead of investing that money in the team's future. Had he not knickle and dimed Penner all summer, he wouldn't have left himself open to Lowe's offer sheet to begin with. In many regards, Burke is an old school manager that is about to be left behind by the new economic climate in the NHL.
Lots of good points... I'd give him a little more credit than you do, but my original point wasn't to lionize Brian Burke, it was to point out that Murray wasn't the architect of the Ducks Cup team the way that many percieve him to be. I wouldn't even go so far as to say that he built the foundation, because IMO the foundation of the Ducks last season was their D, which was changed from top to bottom since Murray left.

Murray drafted and signed some good young forwards, and he definitely has some finger prints on this team, but he doesn't deserve credit for building the team.
 

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Re: Oiles offer Penner a multi-year deal

Lots of good points about... I'd give him a little more credit than you do, but my original point wasn't to lionize Brian Burke, it was to point out that Murray wasn't the architect of the Ducks Cup team the way that many percieve him to be. I wouldn't even go so far as to say that he built the foundation, because IMO the foundation of the Ducks last season was their D, which was changed from top to bottom since Murray left.

Murray drafted and signed some good young forwards, and he definitely has some finger prints on this team, but he doesn't deserve credit for building the team.
I wouldn't say Burke built it either though.

Niedermeyer said he wanted to play with his brother; The Ducks where the only team that could offer him that
Selane want to play one one of two teams, he picked the Ducks, you can't really say that if Burke werent there he would'nt have singed there. IMO, he was going to go there either way.

He deserves credit for Beauchmin/Pronger trade.

I'd say it was pretty much even in terms of who did what between Murray and Burke.
 

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Re: Oiles offer Penner a multi-year deal

when did lou file?

This could surely backfire on him now if it goes to a hearing.
I'm kind of curious as to where this came from as well. I don't remember hearing anything about Parise and arbitration. The last I heard Lou was still talking with Parise's and Martin's agents about new contracts. It wouldn't surprise me if it ends up like Gionta, who actually went to camp without a contract last year.
 

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Re: Oiles offer Penner a multi-year deal

I'm kind of curious as to where this came from as well. I don't remember hearing anything about Parise and arbitration. The last I heard Lou was still talking with Parise's and Martin's agents about new contracts. It wouldn't surprise me if it ends up like Gionta, who actually went to camp without a contract last year.
i was curious also after McCabe stated it.

no one can make an offer for parises because Lou filed for arbitration. And from articles I read around the Vanek ordeal, while a player is in line for arbitration no other team can submit offers. That's why Sather signed Lundy and Avery up for it almost immediately.
 

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Re: Oiles offer Penner a multi-year deal

The club can only elect a player to arbitration on July 6th, if the player has signed a offer sheet before he can not be elected. And a Club can not elect more than 2 players to arbitration and a player can only be elected to arbitration 1 time in his career.
Altough, a club can elect a player to arbitration on June 15th if the player received more than $1,5M.
So basically, yes, a club can avoid offer sheet by signing a player to arbitration.
 

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Re: Oiles offer Penner a multi-year deal

Well, the offer was put forth on the the 26th, wouldn't that make tomorrow 7 days? Or do weekends not count on this one?

que jeopardy theme song.....
 

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Re: Oiles offer Penner a multi-year deal

Well, the offer was put forth on the the 26th, wouldn't that make tomorrow 7 days? Or do weekends not count on this one?

que jeopardy theme song.....
No matter if he matches or passes, Burke will make Lowe wait (which is the right move either way, I think).

Daryl
 

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Re: Oiles offer Penner a multi-year deal

The debate on who built the Ducks has been going on for a while now. Although Murray is responsible for some young guns like Perry,Getzlaf and Penner and the signing of Pahlsson, Burke in my opinion has done most of the work. He brought in Pronger, Niedermayer,Selanne,Beauchemin,reclaimed Kunitz off waivers and put is faith in the young guys to all come in at the same time and get the job done. I think this team is more Burkes now than it is Murrays, and he should get most of the credit, but Murray did give him a good foundation.
 

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Re: Oiles offer Penner a multi-year deal

Being an Oilers fan is like being in an abusive relationship. No matter how many punches we take, we always come back thinking - "He'll change. Things'll get better. He only hits me cause he loves me."

Lowe trades Pronger for a bag of pucks... they record breakingly tank the last third of the season... they lose the heart and soul of the team (not to mention the Captian and the aforementioned bag of pucks) and fail to fill in the gaping holes in the roster... look like ***holes over the Vanek offer and now the Penner deal?

... and season tickets sales are record breaking!!!

Holy ****! What do these ***hats have to do to lose our support? If this were any other team we'd have had a new GM and coach by now. Lowe could stalk the bench with figure skaters and we'd gladly fill the seats.

What does Lowe have to do to get fired?
# posted by Rock Deputy : 8/01/2007 08:41:00 PM
http://coveredinoil.blogspot.com/2007/08/penner-watch-countdown-to-armageddon.html
 
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