Well done Gordfish! Can't be better done. I was really pissed when Nonis passed on Scott Neidermayer - Scott could have replaced Spazzy as Captain. Nonis never addressed the offense problem when he had the chance in the drafts and when he did, he'd select a defenseman like Bourdon or who the hell are you Euro kid Grabner in the first round when the kid is rated as an early third round pick - still can't believe that Michael Grabner stunt Nonis pulled. The owners made it clear in the news conference that Dave could spend up to the salary cap to get the offensive help needed at trade deadline but he instead made another dollar store trade with Matt's. Knowing Nazzy and Mo are in the Nucks future, Nonis would have extra space in the cap to get more help over the summer. Thanks Gordfish for making it clear to everyone why firing Nonis is justified and not just about money or a whim as the press says - reporters should dig a little deeper and report what you, gordfish, have just pointed out. Now, I just hope the new GM can hold onto Bobby Lou long enough to build a championship team. The days of Dollar Store Dave are gone :bt.
Nonis fired!!!
Ron Maclean just reported it during the Pens vs Sens game.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=234310&lid=headline&lpos=topStory_nhl
Well, Gordo's probably out partying after hearing this. lol
I think everyone saw this coming, I just didn't think it would be this soon.
Now the question becomes, who will fill in? Whoever it is has alot of work to do, let's hope he does it right.
Cheers to a new begining.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=234310&lid=headline&lpos=topStory_nhl
Well, Gordo's probably out partying after hearing this. lol
I think everyone saw this coming, I just didn't think it would be this soon.
Now the question becomes, who will fill in? Whoever it is has alot of work to do, let's hope he does it right.
Cheers to a new begining.
21 - 34 of 34 Posts
No worries, man...I wasn't upset at all by what you said.Lol, ok Gordfish, maybe I should've explained my comment.
I wasn't saying you'd be doing a happy dance because of the position we are in, I meant you'd be happy that Nonis is gone.
I'm as pissed off as anybody over the season that we just had. Especialy since one of my smart ass buddies bet me 100$ that the Nucks wouldn't make the playoffs. Of course, I accepted, I didn't see this coming at all.
But there's nothing we can do about the season that past us buy except learn from it. And obviously, the canucks organization did.
Didn't mean to offend you or anything. lol :dunno:
Some people here tend to look at me like a chicken little, that's all. And that's just not the case. If this team was up where Detroit and New Jersey are year in and year out, I'd come off to people as a much more positive person when it comes to the Canucks.
I mea, if you had to live with the smell of rotting garbage for 30 years, you'd be pretty cranky too.
Well, what can I say, that post pretty much sums up the last few years and explains why we are where we are. I'm willing to bet that if you'd send that post to TSN they might change their mind on the whole thing, lol.
Anyways, reading that post depressed the hell out of me. I hadn't thought about the whole Niedermayer thing in a long time, and frankly, I had forgotten about it.
But now I remember, so I'll just go in the other room, tape a picture of Nonis to my punching bag, and go nuts.
Puck Monkey also makes a good point that I've been thinking about. I too just hope that whoever takes over will be able to hold on to Luongo.
Anyways, reading that post depressed the hell out of me. I hadn't thought about the whole Niedermayer thing in a long time, and frankly, I had forgotten about it.
But now I remember, so I'll just go in the other room, tape a picture of Nonis to my punching bag, and go nuts.
Puck Monkey also makes a good point that I've been thinking about. I too just hope that whoever takes over will be able to hold on to Luongo.
Post of the year. Seriously. This is all very very true and very well put.It's not just about missing the playoffs this season, it's about his entire body of work over the 4 years he was here.
Remember game 6 vs Dallas last year? How they didn't even show up for it? Injuries or not, there were too many games like that this season...The 6-2 loss at home vs Colorado, the 5-1 loss in Chicago, any of the seven games they lost in the last nine games of the season.
Then you look at the games where there were efforts this year and you could plainly see that they just didn't have the talent. January was a good example of this, where in 14 of their 15 games that month they had leads of either 1-0 or 2-1 and gave up the next goal.
Then there were the myriad of reclamation projects here under Nonis. Park, Carter, Noronen, Pyatt, Bulis, Cowan, Ritchie, Isbister, Beech, Pettinger and almost Brunnstrom.
There was the fact that he couldn't draft an impact player in the first round of the draft. Again, one project after another meant there was almost no help from the system when they needed it.
And then the coup de grace...the fact that he had one of the best goalies on the planet and a 48 million dollar payroll and missed the playoffs again.
This was not a knee jerk reaction, despite what the idiots in the media want you to believe. This is about the fact that Nonis took over a 100 point roster, missed the playoffs 2 out of three years and has left the roster smaller, weaker and with more holes in it than when he took over, Luongo or no Luongo.
Consider all the mistakes Nonis made here.
- He is one of the 2005 draft lottery winners, moving up from 23rd to 10th. Despite this team's long standing need for both a top 6 scorer and impact centre, he takes a project defenseman in Luc Bourdon and passes on Anze Kopitar, who went next to the Kings.
- Needing to get under the cap coming out of the lockout, he panics and dumps Sopel off for a 2nd round pick. This leaves him with Ohlund, Jovanovski, Salo, Allen and Baumgarnter as his only NHL calibre defenders. His answer to the problem was Steve McCarthy, who didn't last the season.
- Coming out of the lockout, he had an entire third of the league to add from through unrestricted free agency, knowing that he had questions in goal, a lack of depth on defense and was short at least one top 6 forward. His only additions were Richard Park and Anson Carter, despite the fact that Scott Neidermayer wanted to sign and play in Vancouver. Despite an obvious need for another NHL calibre defenseman, Nonis says no thanks. Scott Neidermayer would sign with the Ducks, take them to the WCF in his first year and the Stanley Cup in year two.
- Knowing full well that Ed Jovanovski was not part of his long term plans, he opts not to trade him at the deadline and lets him walk as a free agent withgout compensation. Going in to the deadline that year, they are playing their backup goalie Alex Auld and still have not addressed their obvious weakness on defense, even though both Ohlund and Salo have been knocked out of the lineup with injuries they sustained at the Olympics. His answer to these problems at the deadline are Mika Noronen, Eric Weinrich and Sean Brown, none of whom would play another year in the NHL. Shockingly, the team misses the playoffs.
- In the 2006 draft, Nonis takes Michael Grabner with his first pick, a player that is not ranked as a first round selection on any prospect list on the planet. In fact, most people have him pegged as a late second round or third round pick.
- That summer he allows Jarrko Ruutu, a third round pick, to walk away as an unrestricted free agent.
- Despite the fact that Anson carter scored 33 goals and helped turned the Sedins into legitimate first line scoring threats, Nonis decides he's too expensive at 2 million per and opts not to resign him. Having dealt Bertuzzi to Florida in the Luongo deal, he is now short at least two top 6 scorers and still hasn't acquired an impact centre. His answers to these problems are Jan Bulis and Taylor Pyatt.
- Going in to the 2007 trade deadline, he has the hottest team in the league and his goaltender is having an MVP season that has the team on pace for it's best regular season in team history. But he still has the need for an impact scorer, and it's clear his leading scorer and captain needs an elite forward to help maintain his offensive production. His answer to this need is Bryan Smolinski. The team scores more than 2 goals in just 2 of its 12 playoff games, blows another 3-1 series lead and then bows out in 5 games in the second round.
-Still in dire need of help on offense, he takes a project centre in high school player Patrick White and passes on David Perron, a scoring winger who won the gold medal with Canada at the WJCs that winter. Perron goes on to score 14 goals and 38 points as a rookie with the Blues. No one really knows where White is.
- Completely ignores the team's need for more scoring. His answer in the summer of 07 is to sign Byron Ritchie and Brad Isbister. And despite having an obvious problem with his blueliners ability to stay healthy, he resigns the most injury prone defender in the league in Sami Salo to a 4 year, 14 million dollar contract AND throws in an NTC for good measure.
- Loses a top 6 forward and a top 4 defender to long term injuries in November and his only answer to pick up Kris Beech off of waivers. Beech is cast off by the goal starved Blue Jackets and doesn't last three weeks as a Canuck.
- Despite an obvious need for scoring and having a blue line that is decimated by injury, while watching his team slide inexorably out of a playoff spot, he answers at the trade dealine with third line forward Matt Pettinger. Pettinger had 2 goals when acquired by Nonis.
- He leaves the team faced with the very real possibility that both Morrison and Naslund will walk out of this organization as UFAs, again with no compensation, leaving the team short at least 3 top 6 forwards and STILL NO IMPACT CENTRE. His answer to the problem this time around was to offer a 2 million per contract to 23 year-old underachieving Swede, Fabian Brunnstrom, a player that was not even drafted.
Now you can say hind sight is 20 / 20, but with every one of those decisions, there was a t least one Canuck fan on this board pointing out that these were stupid decisions that would hurt this team rather than help. So if we as fans can see it, what the hell was Nonis' problem?
Outside of the Luongo deal and signing Willie Mitchell, Dave Nonis did a horrible job here and has likely set this team back at least 5 years.
Firing him was not only the right thing to do, it was long, long overdue.
Gord, would you be offended if I sent this to EVERY media outlet in the sporting world?
nice work...nice.
RB
Not at all. And thanks for the kind words everyone. I just wish it was an essay celebrating the Canucks' GM for what a great job he did in building us a Cup winner.Post of the year. Seriously. This is all very very true and very well put.
Gord, would you be offended if I sent this to EVERY media outlet in the sporting world?
nice work...nice.
RB
Oh well...one day, right?
And I'll add another response to consider in reply to the major thread of Nonis' farewell excuse conference.
Dave, you are not a hero or a smart guy for not trading away young players like Edler or Kesler. The deals you have made public that you turned down were no brainers. Of course no one wanted Edler traded for Tkachuk, or Edler, Raymond, Kesler and three draft picks for Brad Richards. Most especially since you made this team so dependent on players like Kesler, Edler and Raymond.
But there is an old saying I think applies perfectly here, and that is this; people create most of their own problems. Had you done a better job of managing your assets in the first place, you never would have been stuck in a postition where most GMs were trying to fleece you for your ONLY good young talent.
Allow me to remind you Dave that you were the one, as GM, that signed Naslund, Morrison, the Sedins, Ohlund, Salo, Kesler, Mitchell and Luongo to the contracts that stuck you up against the cap cieling in the first place.
You were the one that dickered over a million dollars with Anson Carter, the one player that's been able to make the Sedins better players, rather than JUST the other way around.
You were the one that allowed assets like Jovanovski and Ruutu to walk from here for nothing.
You were the one that spent the last two summers filling this team with dregs that no one else would touch.
You were the one that left this team in such an obviously desperate need of scoring, something that you should have damn well known every other GM would try to exploit.
So in short, sir, you were the author of your own demise.
You talk about the pieces you put in place that will make this team a contender. Which pieces were those? All I see is Roberto Luongo and Ryan Kesler. And Kesler was not one of your acquisitions as GM. This team is still short a special teams QB and legitimate number one defenseman, it's still short a dominant number one centre. It's still short a full time winger for the Sedins. It is still schoolled most nights in the face-off circle. It still has major questions surrounding the durability of the defense. It still has a lot of questions swirling around its leadership and character, and it may soon be short 2 more top 6 forwards.
But I suppose you think Michael Grabner, Taylor Ellington, Dan Gendur and Patrick White are going to solve all those problems, and that's fine. Just remember, that's likely part of the reason you got fired. That and the colour of your tie.
Dave, you are not a hero or a smart guy for not trading away young players like Edler or Kesler. The deals you have made public that you turned down were no brainers. Of course no one wanted Edler traded for Tkachuk, or Edler, Raymond, Kesler and three draft picks for Brad Richards. Most especially since you made this team so dependent on players like Kesler, Edler and Raymond.
But there is an old saying I think applies perfectly here, and that is this; people create most of their own problems. Had you done a better job of managing your assets in the first place, you never would have been stuck in a postition where most GMs were trying to fleece you for your ONLY good young talent.
Allow me to remind you Dave that you were the one, as GM, that signed Naslund, Morrison, the Sedins, Ohlund, Salo, Kesler, Mitchell and Luongo to the contracts that stuck you up against the cap cieling in the first place.
You were the one that dickered over a million dollars with Anson Carter, the one player that's been able to make the Sedins better players, rather than JUST the other way around.
You were the one that allowed assets like Jovanovski and Ruutu to walk from here for nothing.
You were the one that spent the last two summers filling this team with dregs that no one else would touch.
You were the one that left this team in such an obviously desperate need of scoring, something that you should have damn well known every other GM would try to exploit.
So in short, sir, you were the author of your own demise.
You talk about the pieces you put in place that will make this team a contender. Which pieces were those? All I see is Roberto Luongo and Ryan Kesler. And Kesler was not one of your acquisitions as GM. This team is still short a special teams QB and legitimate number one defenseman, it's still short a dominant number one centre. It's still short a full time winger for the Sedins. It is still schoolled most nights in the face-off circle. It still has major questions surrounding the durability of the defense. It still has a lot of questions swirling around its leadership and character, and it may soon be short 2 more top 6 forwards.
But I suppose you think Michael Grabner, Taylor Ellington, Dan Gendur and Patrick White are going to solve all those problems, and that's fine. Just remember, that's likely part of the reason you got fired. That and the colour of your tie.
Gordo, your analysis of the Nonis stewardship was spot on :bt. I took the liberty of copy and pasting it and sending it to Rick Ball at the Team 1040. I doubt he will read it, but I am little sick of the fawning over Nonis at that station lately. I hope you don't mind.
The only move of Nonis, I can really give credit for is Jeff Cowan last year, who proviced a spark and chipped in some goals, but injuries or what ever made him a non-factor this year. But still Nonis pursued other teams casts offs and waiver wire rejects, hoping that the "Cowan Lightning" would strike twice. What is it they call doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result? I also liked the Aaron Miller signing this year as it gave depth and looked like somebody would take on and move those who parked in front of the crease to harrass Luongo.
I also liked the Carney trade at the time, but I admit I was wrong on that one.:redface:
The only move of Nonis, I can really give credit for is Jeff Cowan last year, who proviced a spark and chipped in some goals, but injuries or what ever made him a non-factor this year. But still Nonis pursued other teams casts offs and waiver wire rejects, hoping that the "Cowan Lightning" would strike twice. What is it they call doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result? I also liked the Aaron Miller signing this year as it gave depth and looked like somebody would take on and move those who parked in front of the crease to harrass Luongo.
I also liked the Carney trade at the time, but I admit I was wrong on that one.:redface:
i think it was a good move by the canucks management. I wonder who they will bring in to replace him. I think that they should bring in some one from detroit or the devils. Both teams have had good draft history which the canuncks need and have been top teams for a long time
And just to depress Canuck fans even more, take a look at what this team would look like right now if I had of been calling the shots.
- I'd have taken Kopitar in the 05 draft.
- I would have signed Scott Neidermayer, Markus Naslund and Anson Carter in the summer of 05.
- I would have traded Jovanovski to the Penguins for their first pick in the 06 draft.
- I would have taken Jordan Staal in the 06 draft.
- I would have made the same deal for Luongo and would have signed Mitchell, Carter and Rob Neidermayer in the summer of 07.
- I would have taken Perron in the 07 draft.
- I would have traded Kesler, Morrison, Schneider and my first pick in 08 for Brad Richards.
Now you have a top line of Kopitar between Naslund and Richards, a second line of Daniel, Henrik and Carter, and a third line of Burrows, Staal and Rob Neidermayer. With the defense anchored around Neidermayer, Ohlund, Bieksa, Edler, Salo and Krajicek and Luongo in goal. And you still have Raymond and Perron leading essentially the same group of prospects plus whatever I would have added by trading Ruutu and Cooke and holding on to all those 2nd and 3rd round picks that Nonis traded away at the 06 and 07 trade deadlines.
Now look at that core and tell me my team would have missed the playoffs 2 out the three last years. Tell me I would have been fired this year. Tell me that lineup isn't capable of winning a Stanley Cup. Tell me its 'reserve list' or prospect depth would have been any worse than it is now.
Dave Nonis, you are a big fat putz.
- I'd have taken Kopitar in the 05 draft.
- I would have signed Scott Neidermayer, Markus Naslund and Anson Carter in the summer of 05.
- I would have traded Jovanovski to the Penguins for their first pick in the 06 draft.
- I would have taken Jordan Staal in the 06 draft.
- I would have made the same deal for Luongo and would have signed Mitchell, Carter and Rob Neidermayer in the summer of 07.
- I would have taken Perron in the 07 draft.
- I would have traded Kesler, Morrison, Schneider and my first pick in 08 for Brad Richards.
Now you have a top line of Kopitar between Naslund and Richards, a second line of Daniel, Henrik and Carter, and a third line of Burrows, Staal and Rob Neidermayer. With the defense anchored around Neidermayer, Ohlund, Bieksa, Edler, Salo and Krajicek and Luongo in goal. And you still have Raymond and Perron leading essentially the same group of prospects plus whatever I would have added by trading Ruutu and Cooke and holding on to all those 2nd and 3rd round picks that Nonis traded away at the 06 and 07 trade deadlines.
Now look at that core and tell me my team would have missed the playoffs 2 out the three last years. Tell me I would have been fired this year. Tell me that lineup isn't capable of winning a Stanley Cup. Tell me its 'reserve list' or prospect depth would have been any worse than it is now.
Dave Nonis, you are a big fat putz.
First of all Rob Neidermayer has been playing with the ducks since 03 before nonis was the Canuck GM and they never had interest in him so, and Scott never wanted to sign anywhere but where Rob was playing, so how would you sign Scott when you didn't have rob? :n Second 10 teams passed on Kopitar because there we're alot of question marks about him and teams that wanted garunteed assets weren't ready to commit to that. :laugh:And just to depress Canuck fans even more, take a look at what this team would look like right now if I had of been calling the shots.
- I'd have taken Kopitar in the 05 draft.
- I would have signed Scott Neidermayer, Markus Naslund and Anson Carter in the summer of 05.
- I would have traded Jovanovski to the Penguins for their first pick in the 06 draft.
- I would have taken Jordan Staal in the 06 draft.
- I would have made the same deal for Luongo and would have signed Mitchell, Carter and Rob Neidermayer in the summer of 07.
- I would have taken Perron in the 07 draft.
- I would have traded Kesler, Morrison, Schneider and my first pick in 08 for Brad Richards.
Now you have a top line of Kopitar between Naslund and Richards, a second line of Daniel, Henrik and Carter, and a third line of Burrows, Staal and Rob Neidermayer. With the defense anchored around Neidermayer, Ohlund, Bieksa, Edler, Salo and Krajicek and Luongo in goal. And you still have Raymond and Perron leading essentially the same group of prospects plus whatever I would have added by trading Ruutu and Cooke and holding on to all those 2nd and 3rd round picks that Nonis traded away at the 06 and 07 trade deadlines.
Now look at that core and tell me my team would have missed the playoffs 2 out the three last years. Tell me I would have been fired this year. Tell me that lineup isn't capable of winning a Stanley Cup. Tell me its 'reserve list' or prospect depth would have been any worse than it is now.
Dave Nonis, you are a big fat putz.
You think the Penguins would want two expensive defensive liabilities in Jovo and Gonchar? you make me laugh to much. :laugh:
your delusion about your GM'ing skills is funny. :beer :thumbsdow
i agree i dont think that Rob would sign with the canucks and i dont think you can get Scott withought Rob. But i do thin that they should have Chosen Kopitar over BourdounFirst of all Rob Neidermayer has been playing with the ducks since 03 before nonis was the Canuck GM and they never had interest in him so, and Scott never wanted to sign anywhere but where Rob was playing, so how would you sign Scott when you didn't have rob? :n Second 10 teams passed on Kopitar because there we're alot of question marks about him and teams that wanted garunteed assets weren't ready to commit to that.
Because, stupid, Rob Neidermayer was UFA at the end of the 2006 season. All you have to do is tell Scott that you'll make Rob an offer when his contract with the Ducks is over.First of all Rob Neidermayer has been playing with the ducks since 03 before nonis was the Canuck GM and they never had interest in him so, and Scott never wanted to sign anywhere but where Rob was playing, so how would you sign Scott when you didn't have rob? :n Second 10 teams passed on Kopitar because there we're alot of question marks about him and teams that wanted garunteed assets weren't ready to commit to that. :laugh:
You think the Penguins would want two expensive defensive liabilities in Jovo and Gonchar? you make me laugh to much. :laugh:
your delusion about your GM'ing skills is funny. :beer :thumbsdow
And considering that the Penguins acquired Gonchar around that time and tried to trade Staal to the Hurricanes for Johnson at that draft, I'd say they were hunting for big and/or puck moving defensemen.
As for the Kopitar choice, the proof is in the pudding there, pal.
So I suggest you try doing a little a homework and then get that little grey muscle between your ears working before you come in here and try to take me on.
actually you should pull your head out of your a$$ before you speak, Rob Niedermayer re-signed as a restricted free agent to the ducks in "2005" to a 4 year contract. :duhBecause, stupid, Rob Neidermayer was UFA at the end of the 2006 season. All you have to do is tell Scott that you'll make Rob an offer when his contract with the Ducks is over.
And considering that the Penguins acquired Gonchar around that time and tried to trade Staal to the Hurricanes for Johnson at that draft, I'd say they were hunting for big and/or puck moving defensemen.
As for the Kopitar choice, the proof is in the pudding there, pal.
So I suggest you try doing a little a homework and then get that little grey muscle between your ears working before you come in here and try to take me on.
in 2005 the Penguins signed Gonchar to a 5 year, stall wasn't drafted till 2006, you think they would add another 5+ million doller defensemen to there roster like jovonoski? :n
"The proof is in the puddin?" man that has to be one of the most retarded things I've read in a long time, you can try to take credit for somebody else taking a chance on a plyer nobody else would, but still that means it wasn't your idea and your only taking it cause it worked out. :thumbsdow
Man this is what has made me hate Canuck fans even more then Flames fans.
And I think you're actually going to be the one pulling your head our of your arse and that's the end of it. You're not going to come trolling on in, obviously read as little as possible of this conversation and with what little you care to reference, start a riot.actually you should pull your head out of your a$$ before you speak, Rob Niedermayer re-signed as a restricted free agent to the ducks in "2005" to a 4 year contract. :duh
in 2005 the Penguins signed Gonchar to a 5 year, stall wasn't drafted till 2006, you think they would add another 5+ million doller defensemen to there roster like jovonoski? :n
"The proof is in the puddin?" man that has to be one of the most retarded things I've read in a long time, you can try to take credit for somebody else taking a chance on a plyer nobody else would, but still that means it wasn't your idea and your only taking it cause it worked out. :thumbsdow
Man this is what has made me hate Canuck fans even more then Flames fans.
At least not while I am standing in the room. This goes no further. OR, I'm gonna get "retarded", as you'd say.
The End.
RB
21 - 34 of 34 Posts
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