Nonis and the Canucks

3016 Views 25 Replies 9 Participants Last post by Canucks fan 1141, Apr 18, 2008

flyerfan2

Discussion Starter · Apr 4, 2008

OK so Nonis sat idly by and watched this team for the second time in three years miss the playoffs.

He yet again ignored this teams shortcomings both on offence and by refusing to add to the blue line during it’s never ending series of injuries.

He has made one decent deal in his time as GM and that was Luongo.

Yet while acquiring an elite goaltender has failed miserably at adding the rest of the pieces of the puzzle to turn this team into a contender instead of being just a great pretender.

Nonis needs to be relieved of his duties at seasons end plain and simple. He and he a loan is what’s holding this team back from making the next step in becoming a contender.

It seems every one except Dave knew what this team was lacking.

Coach V I’d keep around and see what he could do with some added depth.

He however would be on a short leash and if the team failed early on to be consistent he too would be relieved of his duties.

As this teams inconsistent play and effort game in and game out has to reflect back to him.

It’s one thing to be lacking the talent to win with and whole other issues to not get the most out of the players you have game in and game out.

Naslund- Let him walk no need to resign him

Morrison – See above

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gordfish

· #2 · Apr 4, 2008

Agreed on Nonis, but I think Vigneault has to go too. It isn't a coincidence that this team suffered the same rash of injuries under him that the Habs suffered under Vigneault in the mid 90s. This team is challenged enough with it's ardous travel every year. It doesn't need a coach that leaves the players exposed to fatigue and injury.

As for Naslund, that's a no brainer. But Morrison, Linden and Ohlund have to go with him. That group has had more opportunities than it rightfully deserves this decade and has crumpled spectacularly under the pressure every time, no matter the coach, the system or the goaltender. If you leave them around much longer, their ineptitude and mediocrity will rub off on the Sedins, Mitchell and Luongo, if it hasn't already.

Blow it up. They've had their chances, pissed them away, now it's time to move on.

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flyerfan2

Discussion Starter · #3 · Apr 4, 2008

Oh i agree gord Linden and Ohlund have to go .

Lindens spot would have been much better served giving a young guy the ice time, same with Ohlund , Bourdon would have improved leaps and bounds with his ice time.

Isbister is another waste of a roster spot that needs to go.

Your vright this team needs to be blown up and started over with.

They have some good talent that needs some help , the extra help needed is not over whelming just it needs the right pieces which Nonis has no idea what it is.!!

With the right gm and the right pieces added the turn around could be immediate and with great results.

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gordfish

· #4 · Apr 5, 2008

flyerfan2 said:
Oh i agree gord Linden and Ohlund have to go .

Lindens spot would have been much better served giving a young guy the ice time, same with Ohlund , Bourdon would have improved leaps and bounds with his ice time.

Isbister is another waste of a roster spot that needs to go.

Your vright this team needs to be blown up and started over with.

They have some good talent that needs some help , the extra help needed is not over whelming just it needs the right pieces which Nonis has no idea what it is.!!

With the right gm and the right pieces added the turn around could be immediate and with great results.

See what you think of this approach, Doug.

Give the C to Mitchell and an A to Kesler and Bieksa

Let go: Naslund, Morrison, Linden, Ritchie, Isbister, Sanford, Shannon

Resign: Brown, Rypien, Weaver, McIver

Sign: Brian Campbell, Ryan Malone or Michael Ryder, Jody Shelley

Trade: Ohlund (+?) for Jordan Staal

Daniel / Henrik / Malone or Ryder
Raymond / Kesler / Burrows
Pyatt / Staal / Pettinger
Shelley / Rypien / Brown
Cowan

Campbell / Mitchell
Edler / Bieksa
Salo / Krajicek
Weaver, Bourdon, McIver

Luongo
McIntyre

Give the Sedins until the trade deadline to see how they do with either Malone or Ryder on their wing. See what becomes available at the deadline with them to shop. Who knows, maybe Eric Staal shakes loose out of Carolina?

It's a start, anyways. It turns the leadership over to the guys who deserve it, the only big contract they take on is Campbell's, and you get your pugilist.

I'd also entertain the idea of signing either Yelle or Randy Robitaille for their face-off and penalty killing abilites.

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flyerfan2

Discussion Starter · #5 · Apr 5, 2008

I'd like to see something along those lines gord.

I really like Malone along side of the twins.

I also like your picks for leadership for next season a changing of the gaurd is long over due.
Glad to see you come around on your fourth line.:bt I like it it offers protection which this team has been missing.
I like McIver also the kid has earned a shot at being a regular.

Bourdon next season either makes the team out right or is traded well he still has some value. IMHO it's make it or break it season for him.

Weaver he was a nice suprise a good solid 6 or 7 dman despite his size.

Ryder i'm not sold on altho who knows maybe a change of senery will do him good.

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KB in Kelowna

· #6 · Apr 5, 2008 (Edited)

Thought I would pop in and add my 2 cents. First, Nonis was Stan McCammon's man. Dave Nonis had earned the reputation of being able to keep the Canuck payroll on budget, Burke used to brag about but Nonis did the nickel and diming in contract negotiations with the agents. He was not hired but inherited when the Acquillini's took over.
Second, I don't think that who ever is in charge will enter serious negotiations with Trevor Linden this year for a playing contract. Read the writing on the wall, enjoy a nice video tribute before tonight's game Trev, and admt it is over.

datsun260z

· #7 · Apr 5, 2008

I think Nonis should be relived based on the simple fact that in all seriousness teams and ownership in situations like this need to send messages that half asses efforts are not tolerated in any way shape or form. Especially when given chance after change aaannnnnd there are better people out there with proven track records. Eg. Neil Smith and Pat Burns. I've said it elsewhere and will maintain it here.

Little known fact, Pat Burns is 10th in all time wins....something to consider. And if one person here tells me "yeah, but he had cancer" I will puke all over my keyboard. :y:y

By bringing in men of this caliber you send a message to the entire league let alone the men in this lockerroom that "we're serious" and nobodies job is "safe"

Here's the harsh reality of who's signed next year.

Sedins
Pyatt
Cowan
Raymond
Burrows
Pettinger
Jaffrey
Hansen
Mitchell
Salo
Ohlund
Krajicek (remember him!)
Bourdon
Edler
Bieksa
Luongo.

That's about 19.25 in cap hit. which if the cap goes to 56 mil they have 36.75 to spend...MASSIVE really.

Here's a few UFA's I'd consider taking a run at.

Hossa
Lankow
Avery
Ryder
Campbell
Stillman
Sundin
Malone
Dupuis
Auld (this guy won 30 some games with us!)

And yes I agree gordo, I'd resign Rypien. I think he's fighting ability alone impresses me. That fight with Carcillo....best of the year IMO on this team. And Brown too, along with WEaver. Shannon....I'm wavering.

Here's the interesting part. RFA's. With 36 mil I think a strong case could be made for attempting to land Cory Perry, Jared Stoll or even Jay Boumeester. I really like that kid. For my money however, Perry is what this team needs most from the RFA list. He can do it all and reminds me a lot of Vinny in TBay for some reason. I think he has a meaner streak too.

To add some strenth I'd consider an Asham or Ott type.

The biggest lesson we've learned is the Twins are good, but their not great it seems. They're a 2nd line and should be the 2 to a 1 - 2 punch. :bt

Bottom line is if the captain of this ship (the GM) is weak than so will it's crew be. The GM steers the boat and so far it's bashing around on the rocks in Burrard Inlet.

RB

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KB in Kelowna

· #8 · Apr 5, 2008

RustyBadcock said:
I think Nonis should be relived based on the simple fact that in all seriousness teams and ownership in situations like this need to send messages that half asses efforts are not tolerated in any way shape or form. Especially when given chance after change aaannnnnd there are better people out there with proven track records. Eg. Neil Smith and Pat Burns. I've said it elsewhere and will maintain it here.

Little known fact, Pat Burns is 10th in all time wins....something to consider. And if one person here tells me "yeah, but he had cancer" I will puke all over my keyboard. :y:y

By bringing in men of this caliber you send a message to the entire league let alone the men in this lockerroom that "we're serious" and nobodies job is "safe"

Here's the harsh reality of who's signed next year.

Sedins
Pyatt
Cowan
Raymond
Burrows
Pettinger
Jaffrey
Hansen
Mitchell
Salo
Ohlund
Krajicek (remember him!)
Bourdon
Edler
Bieksa
Luongo.

That's about 19.25 in cap hit. which if the cap goes to 56 mil they have 36.75 to spend...MASSIVE really.

Here's a few UFA's I'd consider taking a run at.

Hossa
Lankow
Avery
Ryder
Campbell
Stillman
Sundin
Malone
Dupuis
Auld (this guy won 30 some games with us!)

And yes I agree gordo, I'd resign Rypien. I think he's fighting ability alone impresses me. That fight with Carcillo....best of the year IMO on this team. And Brown too, along with WEaver. Shannon....I'm wavering.

Here's the interesting part. RFA's. With 36 mil I think a strong case could be made for attempting to land Cory Perry, Jared Stoll or even Jay Boumeester. I really like that kid. For my money however, Perry is what this team needs most from the RFA list. He can do it all and reminds me a lot of Vinny in TBay for some reason. I think he has a meaner streak too.

To add some strenth I'd consider an Asham or Ott type.

The biggest lesson we've learned is the Twins are good, but their not great it seems. They're a 2nd line and should be the 2 to a 1 - 2 punch. :bt

Bottom line is if the captain of this ship (the GM) is weak than so will it's crew be. The GM steers the boat and so far it's bashing around on the rocks in Burrard Inlet.

RB

Thanks for the update on who is signed and who is available. On the Twins, they are both roughly " Point per Game" players but lacked a solid finisher and or protector in the late stages of most seasons and in thier limited play off experiences so far. Most teams do not have point per game guys playing on a second line. If RB's figures are correct then they might be able to do an offer sheet to a good RFA or attract a quality UFA to Lotusland this summer. Most of the teams behind them this year are young and on the upswing so more of the same from Nonis will not do. Perhaps they need to trade veteran defence experience ( Ohlund) or potential (Bieska/Bourdon) for a youunger emerging player from one of this years also rans:dunno:?

puck_monkey

· #9 · Apr 5, 2008

RustyBadcock said:
I think Nonis should be relived based on the simple fact that in all seriousness teams and ownership in situations like this need to send messages that half asses efforts are not tolerated in any way shape or form. Especially when given chance after change aaannnnnd there are better people out there with proven track records. Eg. Neil Smith and Pat Burns. I've said it elsewhere and will maintain it here.

Little known fact, Pat Burns is 10th in all time wins....something to consider. And if one person here tells me "yeah, but he had cancer" I will puke all over my keyboard. :y:y

By bringing in men of this caliber you send a message to the entire league let alone the men in this lockerroom that "we're serious" and nobodies job is "safe"

Bottom line is if the captain of this ship (the GM) is weak than so will it's crew be. The GM steers the boat and so far it's bashing around on the rocks in Burrard Inlet.

RB

Rusty, I'd like to see Smith and Burns come in and take over Nonis and Vigneault. Let Nazzy go and Linden's spot would be better filled by one of the young Moose players. Thanks Trevor for the effort in '94 :bt. Thanks Markus for the choke in '06 :y.

prucha_for_mvp

· #10 · Apr 6, 2008 (Edited)

I believe I recall Nonis saying(or someone along those lines) that the Canucks organization was going to pay big this season for 1 year deals etc. so they expire this summer.

The reason: They want to sign some big name players (last year there run was at Heatley)

The problem: There are no big name players to sign on July 1st.

I would love to see a guy like Brendan Shannahan come to Vancouver. He would bring grit, leadership and more importantly experience. Not sure when his contract runs out but in my opinion a guy like Shanny should be our number 1 priority. Secondly we need defenseman that can play over 70 games a year. I am tired of these injury prone guys that we keep taking chances on.. It's not paying off!!!

I agree gun Naslund and Morrison but then what do we do?? Would it be smart to give them the lowest contract they will accept and then trade them?? Instead of letting them walk?

Give Mitchell the C. The guy is a tank.. Enough said.

I dont like Gordo's idea of giving up Shannon. I was really impressed with this speedy little guy and wouldn't mind him sticking around next year for the right price.

All in all we need massive changes. In the draft we do not need another goalie what we need is a stay at home defenseman and/or a power forward.

In my opinion Nonis please lay off the soft euros...

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gordfish

· #11 · Apr 7, 2008 (Edited)

RustyBadcock said:
I think Nonis should be relived based on the simple fact that in all seriousness teams and ownership in situations like this need to send messages that half asses efforts are not tolerated in any way shape or form. Especially when given chance after change aaannnnnd there are better people out there with proven track records. Eg. Neil Smith and Pat Burns. I've said it elsewhere and will maintain it here.

Little known fact, Pat Burns is 10th in all time wins....something to consider. And if one person here tells me "yeah, but he had cancer" I will puke all over my keyboard. :y:y

By bringing in men of this caliber you send a message to the entire league let alone the men in this lockerroom that "we're serious" and nobodies job is "safe"

Here's the harsh reality of who's signed next year.

Sedins
Pyatt
Cowan
Raymond
Burrows
Pettinger
Jaffrey
Hansen
Mitchell
Salo
Ohlund
Krajicek (remember him!)
Bourdon
Edler
Bieksa
Luongo.

That's about 19.25 in cap hit. which if the cap goes to 56 mil they have 36.75 to spend...MASSIVE really.

Here's a few UFA's I'd consider taking a run at.

Hossa
Lankow
Avery
Ryder
Campbell
Stillman
Sundin
Malone
Dupuis
Auld (this guy won 30 some games with us!)

And yes I agree gordo, I'd resign Rypien. I think he's fighting ability alone impresses me. That fight with Carcillo....best of the year IMO on this team. And Brown too, along with WEaver. Shannon....I'm wavering.

Here's the interesting part. RFA's. With 36 mil I think a strong case could be made for attempting to land Cory Perry, Jared Stoll or even Jay Boumeester. I really like that kid. For my money however, Perry is what this team needs most from the RFA list. He can do it all and reminds me a lot of Vinny in TBay for some reason. I think he has a meaner streak too.

To add some strenth I'd consider an Asham or Ott type.

The biggest lesson we've learned is the Twins are good, but their not great it seems. They're a 2nd line and should be the 2 to a 1 - 2 punch. :bt

Bottom line is if the captain of this ship (the GM) is weak than so will it's crew be. The GM steers the boat and so far it's bashing around on the rocks in Burrard Inlet.

RB

Sorry Rusty, but I have to point out that your salary numbers are wrong. The Canucks have 35.15 million committed for next season.

http://www.nhlnumbers.com/overview.php?team=VAN

Now, that does leave them almost 20 million in cap space if Nonis has permission from ownership to spend the max. But considering how the Acquillini's operate and the fact that teams like Nashville and San Jose made the playoffs with 30 million dollar rosters, don't be surprised if Nonis or the new GM is told to cut payroll by 10 million.

Anyways, here is another adjustment on my earlier suggestion for next year's roster.

Sign the same players I mentioned already, but trade Ohlund and Schneider to Boston for Bergeron and and the Bruins first round pick. Take Boychuck and Greg Nemisz in the draft.

Raymond / Bergeron / Pyatt
Daniel / Henrik / Ryder
Pettinger / Kesler / Burrows
Shelley / Rypien / Brown
Cowan

Campbell / Mitchell
Bieksa / Edler
Salo / Krajicek
Weaver, McIver, Bourdon

Luongo
McIntyre

Then take a look at the possible goal totals for the top 3 lines...

Raymond - 25 (scored at a 19 goal pace after his second call up).
Bergeron - 30
Pyatt - 20
Daniel - 30
Henrik - 12
Ryder - 30
Pettinger - 15
Kesler - 20
Burrows - 12

That's 194 goals from their top 3 lines alone. If you throw in 10 each from Campbell, Bieksa, Edler and Salo, that gives them a conservative estimate of 234 goals without counting the totals from their 4th line forwards, bottom 2 scoring defenders, the black aces and minor league callups. Give that group 16 altogether to up the goal total to a nice round 250, and that would have put them 5th overall this season.

And they add Boychuck and Nemisz to a group of prospects that already include Grabner, White, Gendur, Bliznak, Simek, Hansen, Shirikov, Bourdon, Ellerton and Rahimi.

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prucha_for_mvp

· #12 · Apr 7, 2008

Sorry Gordo but I don't want Mcintyre. We need a goalie who can play solid in 15+ games. We don't want Luongo overworked like he was this season. That could had been the reason he had a bad stretch because he was so fatigued.

datsun260z

· #13 · Apr 7, 2008 (Edited)

gordfish said:
Sorry Rusty, but I have to point out that your salary numbers are wrong. The Canucks have 35.15 million committed for next season.

http://www.nhlnumbers.com/overview.php?team=VAN

Now, that does leave them almost 20 million in cap space if Nonis has permission from ownership to spend the max. But considering how the Acquillini's operate and the fact that teams like Nashville and San Jose made the playoffs with 30 million dollar rosters, don't be surprised if Nonis or the new GM is told to cut payroll by 10 million.

Anyways, here is another adjustment on my earlier suggestion for next year's roster.

Sign the same players I mentioned already, but trade Ohlund and Schneider to Boston for Bergeron and and the Bruins first round pick. Take Boychuck and Greg Nemisz in the draft.

Raymond / Bergeron / Pyatt
Daniel / Henrik / Ryder
Pettinger / Kesler / Burrows
Shelley / Rypien / Brown
Cowan

Campbell / Mitchell
Bieksa / Edler
Salo / Krajicek
Weaver, McIver, Bourdon

Luongo
McIntyre

Then take a look at the possible goal totals for the top 3 lines...

Raymond - 25 (scored at a 19 goal pace after his second call up).
Bergeron - 30
Pyatt - 20
Daniel - 30
Henrik - 12
Ryder - 30
Pettinger - 15
Kesler - 20
Burrows - 12

That's 194 goals from their top 3 lines alone. If you throw in 10 each from Campbell, Bieksa, Edler and Salo, that gives them a conservative estimate of 234 goals without counting the totals from their 4th line forwards, bottom 2 scoring defenders, the black aces and minor league callups. Give that group 16 altogether to up the goal total to a nice round 250, and that would have put them 5th overall this season.

And they add Boychuck and Nemisz to a group of prospects that already include Grabner, Gendur, Bliznak, Simek, Hansen, Shirikov, Bourdon, Ellerton and Rahimi.

Crazy, thats exactly where I got my numbers from?? I obviously read the page wrong....too many :beer:beer:beer :laugh: I guess? Good thing I don't do the books around here that's for sure. And now that I see it I read the figures for the following year which read 19.250 :n

RB

groleau97

· #14 · Apr 7, 2008

gordfish said:
Sorry Rusty, but I have to point out that your salary numbers are wrong. The Canucks have 35.15 million committed for next season.

http://www.nhlnumbers.com/overview.php?team=VAN

Now, that does leave them almost 20 million in cap space if Nonis has permission from ownership to spend the max. But considering how the Acquillini's operate and the fact that teams like Nashville and San Jose made the playoffs with 30 million dollar rosters, don't be surprised if Nonis or the new GM is told to cut payroll by 10 million.

Anyways, here is another adjustment on my earlier suggestion for next year's roster.

Sign the same players I mentioned already, but trade Ohlund and Schneider to Boston for Bergeron and and the Bruins first round pick. Take Boychuck and Greg Nemisz in the draft.

Raymond / Bergeron / Pyatt
Daniel / Henrik / Ryder
Pettinger / Kesler / Burrows
Shelley / Rypien / Brown
Cowan

Campbell / Mitchell
Bieksa / Edler
Salo / Krajicek
Weaver, McIver, Bourdon

Luongo
McIntyre

Then take a look at the possible goal totals for the top 3 lines...

Raymond - 25 (scored at a 19 goal pace after his second call up).
Bergeron - 30
Pyatt - 20
Daniel - 30
Henrik - 12
Ryder - 30
Pettinger - 15
Kesler - 20
Burrows - 12

That's 194 goals from their top 3 lines alone. If you throw in 10 each from Campbell, Bieksa, Edler and Salo, that gives them a conservative estimate of 234 goals without counting the totals from their 4th line forwards, bottom 2 scoring defenders, the black aces and minor league callups. Give that group 16 altogether to up the goal total to a nice round 250, and that would have put them 5th overall this season.

And they add Boychuck and Nemisz to a group of prospects that already include Grabner, Gendur, Bliznak, Simek, Hansen, Shirikov, Bourdon, Ellerton and Rahimi.

this is a good looking team overall. I'm just not sure if Pyatt would fit weel with those two. Don't get me wrong I like the guy, I just don't see him having enough impact to be a first line player. Although, looking at that lineup I don't see where else he could go, so I guess it would be worth trying.

The defence look like they would be a productive back end, but I'm thinking the six starters would be a little soft, with the exception of Mitchell and Bieksa.

Maybe keep Ohlund instead of Salo?:dunno:

gordfish

· #15 · Apr 7, 2008

groleau97 said:
this is a good looking team overall. I'm just not sure if Pyatt would fit weel with those two. Don't get me wrong I like the guy, I just don't see him having enough impact to be a first line player. Although, looking at that lineup I don't see where else he could go, so I guess it would be worth trying.

The defence look like they would be a productive back end, but I'm thinking the six starters would be a little soft, with the exception of Mitchell and Bieksa.

Maybe keep Ohlund instead of Salo?:dunno:

You're not going to get Bergeron for Salo for starters. And they have McIver, Ellerton, Fitzgerald and Rahimi in the system, all physical stay-at-home types.

I think it is more important that they have a defense that is efficient at moving the puck, anyways.

gordfish

· #16 · Apr 7, 2008

prucha_for_mvp said:
Sorry Gordo but I don't want Mcintyre. We need a goalie who can play solid in 15+ games. We don't want Luongo overworked like he was this season. That could had been the reason he had a bad stretch because he was so fatigued.

Yeah OK...like the backup goalie is the big issue, right?

Bring back Sanford if he wants to come back...sign Auld, bring Essenssa out of retirement, whatever...

groleau97

· #17 · Apr 7, 2008

gordfish said:
You're not going to get Bergeron for Salo for starters. And they have McIver, Ellerton, Fitzgerald and Rahimi in the system, all physical stay-at-home types.

I think it is more important that they have a defense that is efficient at moving the puck, anyways.

True.

I'm pretty sure San Jose will try their best to re-sign Cambell though, but if he does become avaible Nonis would be stupid not to try.

Quick question for everyone. I've been thinking of Ryder ever since the start of the season. I'm positive the twins would turn him into back into a 30 goal scorer, maybe 40.

I had a feeling Nonis would make a pitch for him at the deadline, but once again I thought wrong.

Anyways, how much do you guys think he will be worth once he hits the open market? This season hasn't helped his value that was once going up and up and up, but I think he could still fetch a decent amount considering the way some UFA's are being over paid.

I guess my question is how much would you be willing to spend for him?

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gordfish

· #18 · Apr 7, 2008

groleau97 said:
True.

I'm pretty sure San Jose will try their best to re-sign Cambell though, but if he does become avaible Nonis would be stupid not to try.

Quick question for everyone. I've been thinking of Ryder ever since the start of the season. I'm positive the twins would turn him into back into a 30 goal scorer, maybe 40.

I had a feeling Nonis would make a pitch for him at the deadline, but once again I thought wrong.

Anyways, how much do you guys think he will be worth once he hits the open market? This season hasn't helped his value that was once going up and up and up, but I think he could still fetch a decent amount considering the way some UFA's are being over paid.

I guess my question is how much would you be willing to spend for him?

4 mil per at least. That may be overpaying, but the Canucks NEED his shot and scoring, especially on the PP. If they are going to add any free agents, they are going to HAVE overpay, and that is just something Nonis and everyone will have to face.

Saying that, I'd offer Campbell 7 to 8 mil per to keep him away from San Jose and everyone else.

datsun260z

· #19 · Apr 7, 2008

gordfish said:
4 mil per at least. That may be overpaying, but the Canucks NEED his shot and scoring, especially on the PP. If they are going to add any free agents, they are going to HAVE overpay, and that is just something Nonis and everyone will have to face.

Saying that, I'd offer Campbell 7 to 8 mil per to keep him away from San Jose and everyone else.

Both price tags are fine by me.....and since I am such an outstanding accountant pay them double...I'll make'r fit under the cap. :laugh::beer

RB

groleau97

· #20 · Apr 8, 2008

4 mil? bring it. :bt

It's a more than what I think he's worth, but given the canucks' situation it's worth taking a gamble. He would get it somewhere else anyways, and for that price I'd rather see him in a blue shirt.

TSN just showed a 10 second clip of Nonis, saying there will be a whole new look to the team come training camp. Of course he HAS to say that, only time will tell how serious he is.

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