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segaszivos said:
Players like Pronger, Selanne, Mogilny, Peca and even though he is retired now, PATRICK ROY, are over-rated. Roy was by far the most over-rated goalie of all time. Playing for the best team for 6 years and in a league where the trap was the only source of defense helped him appear to be better than he was.
Pronger....agreed

Selanne....ok

Peca.....??? when was he ever rated as good. He never was and never will be a big goal scorer and no one ecpects him to be that. He hustles, great leadership and team player.(unless he plays with Yashin) He does that things that cant be taught

Roy....one of the greatest goalies ever. True defence helped and all that but he was superb. Come playoff time he was lights out.
 

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LI Edge said:
Roy....one of the greatest goalies ever. True defence helped and all that but he was superb. Come playoff time he was lights out.
Especially in the '02 playoffs against the Wings, he was really lights out in games 6 and 7. :biggrin:
 

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kojack said:
I watched him all through there...and he was nothing spectacular...not what they hyped him up to be...not by a long shot. the next one? hardly.
I can't even take you seriously if you are gonna say that you watched Eric Lindros win a Hart trophy and say he was nothing spectacular. Anyone that wins a Hart trophy plays spectacularly for that year. Maybe he didn't end up being what they hyped him up to be, but when he was healthy he was every bit as good as every thought and knew he could be. The injuries killed him, and that's it. It wasn't because he lacked a talent that the scouts thought he had, he was just never really healthy for an extended period of time.
 

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LiAmTrAnSdEmOn said:
I can't even take you seriously if you are gonna say that you watched Eric Lindros win a Hart trophy and say he was nothing spectacular. Anyone that wins a Hart trophy plays spectacularly for that year. Maybe he didn't end up being what they hyped him up to be, but when he was healthy he was every bit as good as every thought and knew he could be. The injuries killed him, and that's it. It wasn't because he lacked a talent that the scouts thought he had, he was just never really healthy for an extended period of time.
hold on now, i distinctly remember lindros' best years. he scored, what, zero points in the finals against detroit? he was definitely a great player before the injuries took their toll, but at his most dominant, i wouldn't put him head and shoulders above, say, forsberg or jagr in their best years as you do, maybe not even fedorov or bure. lindros was definitely not as good as advertised. he had all the size and talent in the world, but his on-ice vision turned out to be far less developed than we expected. remember when they said he had gretzky's vision, lemieux's hands, and messier's body? they were wrong about the first part. he also had massive brain cramps at inopportune times, was a questionable leader at best, and, as most devils fans will tell you, there was that unfortunate heads up problem.

(of course, some say that if lindros wasn't such a jackass, he'd still be dominating today. there was also that rumour that his own teammate sandy mccarthy gave him that first concussion after the team found out he was sleeping with brind'amour's wife. there's also that rumour where lindros says questions elvis stojko's sexual orientation at a bar and stojko floors him with one punch. these rumours are, of course, unverified.)
 

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When Lindros was playing at the top of his game he was better than everyone else. He could score just as many points as the guys you mentioned, but he also knew to play defense, and when need be, he would beat the crap out of someone to send a message. He domianted on the ice, period. The year that he was hurt and came back in the playoffs against Buffalo he singlehandedly took the Flyers to the next round. He purposely ran over Hasek in net and took his penalty, but the message he sent was clear that none of his acting would go on any longer. His intimidation factor was another thing that very few people possessed and Lindros had it like the best. There weren't many people that wanted to even be on the ice with Lindros because of the aura of greatness that he owned. I'm not sure who said it, but after one of those Buffalo games, a player was asked why they lost and he responded "We were too busy watching Eric", or something along those lines.
 

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i don't deny that, at times, lindros has been the best player in the league, but i don't concede that he was easily the best player in the league, nor do i think that he was the best player in the league the entire time he was healthy. of the players drafted between '89 and '91, the most dominant skaters were lindros, forsberg, and jagr, with fedorov and bure behind them. each of these players was the best player in the world at one point in his career, though the first three dominated in ways fedorov and bure never did. yes, lindros had a physical dimension to his game that none of these other guys did but i think you're overstating how dominant that made him. they all had dimensions that he didn't.

LiAmTrAnSdEmOn said:
He could score just as many points as the guys you mentioned, but he also knew to play defense,
you're telling me lindros was a better defensive player than fedorov? i don't think that has been true for a single day of lindros' career. forsberg, remember, is also an excellent two-way center.

lindros also never had jagr's quickness and hands, jagr or forsberg's vision, fedorov and bure's speed, or bure's scoring touch. put forsberg or jagr in lindros' place in 1997. on the same team, could they have gotten to the finals? forsberg had very similar stats to lindros between '95-'97. jagr destroyed him both seasons. there are extenuating factors behind the numbers -- these guys were on different teams -- but all three were feared by defenders, just in different ways. defencemen were afraid lindros would hurt them physically. but don't you think they were just as scared that jagr would make them look like pylons? you're a flyers fan, so you've seen a lot of lindros. i can remember plenty of games when the entire opposing team was standing around watching pavel skate circles around them, when goaltenders didn't even react as he skated towards them. i've seen games where no one else touched the puck when pavel was on the ice.

i will say one thing though, there is not a single player in the league right now (jagr, forsberg, lindros, and fedorov included) that can dominate like those five guys did between '94 and 2000. the new generation of players in their mid-20's just isn't nearly as talented.
 

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Yoata said:
Especially in the '02 playoffs against the Wings, he was really lights out in games 6 and 7. :biggrin:
That was what... his last season? older and toward the end of his career it happens to everyone
 

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Yoata said:
Especially in the '02 playoffs against the Wings, he was really lights out in games 6 and 7. :biggrin:
That was what... his last season? older and toward the end of his career it happens to everyone

you trying to say that he wasnt amazing in the playoffs his other year when he was younger?
 

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pavelbure said:
hold on now, i distinctly remember lindros' best years. he scored, what, zero points in the finals against detroit? he was definitely a great player before the injuries took their toll, but at his most dominant, i wouldn't put him head and shoulders above, say, forsberg or jagr in their best years as you do, maybe not even fedorov or bure. lindros was definitely not as good as advertised. he had all the size and talent in the world, but his on-ice vision turned out to be far less developed than we expected. remember when they said he had gretzky's vision, lemieux's hands, and messier's body? they were wrong about the first part. he also had massive brain cramps at inopportune times, was a questionable leader at best, and, as most devils fans will tell you, there was that unfortunate heads up problem.

(of course, some say that if lindros wasn't such a jackass, he'd still be dominating today. there was also that rumour that his own teammate sandy mccarthy gave him that first concussion after the team found out he was sleeping with brind'amour's wife. there's also that rumour where lindros says questions elvis stojko's sexual orientation at a bar and stojko floors him with one punch. these rumours are, of course, unverified.)

That sums it up right there.....
 

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jersey_gurl said:
Thanks for agreeing with my choices gordfish. Its true that Lindros is another overated player who whines and complains more than scores goals. As far as i'm concerned the leafs can have him. Alot of fans in leafland are hoping Lindros will make a huge comeback beacuse he is finally playing for the team that he wants, but if I were them I wouldn't hold my breath.
Maybe you should start holding your breath, Lindros is doing very well for the leafs and is hitting hard. As for the most overrated superstar, im going to have to give Palffy my vote.
 

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Jaromir Jagr sure shut a lot of us up.
:haha:

As of now I'd say the most overated player right now is Ziggy Palffy. I thought he would play better with the offence the Pens have but i guess he is an Alexei Kovalev in New York(2002-2003)

Alexei Kovalev is another overated player.
 

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pavelbure said:
hold on now, i distinctly remember lindros' best years. he scored, what, zero points in the finals against detroit? he was definitely a great player before the injuries took their toll, but at his most dominant, i wouldn't put him head and shoulders above, say, forsberg or jagr in their best years as you do, maybe not even fedorov or bure. lindros was definitely not as good as advertised. he had all the size and talent in the world, but his on-ice vision turned out to be far less developed than we expected. remember when they said he had gretzky's vision, lemieux's hands, and messier's body? they were wrong about the first part. he also had massive brain cramps at inopportune times, was a questionable leader at best, and, as most devils fans will tell you, there was that unfortunate heads up problem.

(of course, some say that if lindros wasn't such a jackass, he'd still be dominating today. there was also that rumour that his own teammate sandy mccarthy gave him that first concussion after the team found out he was sleeping with brind'amour's wife. there's also that rumour where lindros says questions elvis stojko's sexual orientation at a bar and stojko floors him with one punch. these rumours are, of course, unverified.)

Wow, what a biased arguement. The post you were commenting on only mentioned that he won a hart trophy, which the NHL acknowledges as the leagues best player. The whole point is that Lindros did at least deliver 4-6 very solid years. It doesnt matter that he wasnt the best player in the league every year. Would it be fair to say Crosby is overrated if he doesnt become the leagues best player every single year? The post also mentioned that injuries were a major cause of him not keeping up the same level and not developing even more. You mention he scored 0 goals in the finals vs Detroit. Big Deal. What a way to evaluate a player. Use a single series and measure him that way. Just to inform you, here are Lindros' career playoff stats:

50 games - 24 goals - 57 points

Thats an average of a goal every other game, and over a point per game. Lets not pretend like hes a total playoff bust all of a sudden. Nobody was claiming Eric as overrated when the legion of doom was the biggest force in the league at the time. I mean, it makes little to no sense to claim Lindros as overrated in the same fashion as players like Yashin. Players dont win Hart Trophys for no reason. Hes far beyond a point a game player over his career and lord knows where he would be if it were not for his concusion problems.
687 games, 827 points and a career +219 isnt overrated. Not when you consider Lindros' (failed) potential cant be measured due to his health issues. In his first two seasons in the NHL he scored 85 goals in 126 games. He was racking up points while he never played a full season. It wasnt until 2002-2003 that Lindros broke the 80 games played mark in a season. Erics first 6 seasons in the NHL went like this... 61, 65, 46, 73, 52, 63 games played. Even without playing full season, he managed three 40 goal seasons, two 30 goal seasons, and 29 goal season. Ok, maybe he wasnt the best player in the league all of those years, but so what. How many young players are able to achieve the feat of being the leagues best player in their first few seasons? The point of the topic is overrated players. In spite of his injuries, i think its pretty clear he at least lived up to the hype and was AMONG the leagues best for quite a few seasons. Is he as good as forsberg? hell no. But just because he isnt as good. doesnt make him among the most overrated players. Why you chose to add Eric Lindros "rumours" is beyond me. I found it worth a chuckle to see "of course, some say that if lindros wasn't such a jackass, he'd still be dominating today". Yes thats right. Its his attitude (not his concusions, duh) that make him less dominant. :haha: :0pouce:

Dont worry PB. Irrational posts are ok just because of a dislike. Afterall, what could be more sportsnetish.
 

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call the WAHHHHHHHHHH-mbulence for JAGR...he is the most over rated..
 
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