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Ok to end this once and for all show us evidence that the Wings fans supported the Red Wings Back when they were lossing.

Just cause Rangers fans as myself supported a lossing team in the past could be debated as the population of the area outshines many other hockey markets. Proof enough is that 3 local area teams blog one another within a 10-40-60 min radius of each other. If you took the the attendence of the devils and the islanders together its enough to fill another MSG.

Heck you could add another NHL team in NYC right in Brooklyn and i bet it would sell out. NYC is soon going to be supporting 2 NBA teams as the NETS are going to brooklyn with a new building. Add another hockey team to this building as well. Even so there was talk the Rangers AHL team will move there and for sure they will sell out also. i know i will go. Hockey is the best game ever IMO.

Now if detroit was as large as NYC im sure even if lossing they would have a full house and could possibly lay claim as Hockeytown. As it is now The Flyers would be a stronger canadate to fill that fill that position next to the Rangers.

If NYC had detroits population it could be very possible MSG would not sell out. Resulting in a smaller fan base.

I just find it hard to debate why NYC isnt and untill someone can prove otherwise this debate will just keep going. Its really starting to get pointless.
For crying out loud Krypt, do you read just seleted portions of peoples posts? He isn't denying that the Wings aren't the best market, nor is he saying they are the best supported team. He is saying, and I hope I'm not putting words into his mouth, but they are/were supported enough to keep the team viable, and profitable even during some tough ecconomic times. The ONLY reason NY is and will continue to be the #1 hockey market, is because of the size and population of the City, not because NYC is a hockeytown.
 

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In terms of winning? Making profits?

Elaborate why.
Winning.

10 Stanley Cups
5 President Trophys
4 Conference Championships
16 Divisional Titles
33 Hall of Fame Players (With the likes of Stevie Y, Lidstrom, Shanny, Hasek, possibly even Federov all to be inducted)
4 Staff Hall of Fameers (Ken Holland will get the nod soon enough also)
7 Art Ross Trophys
2 Bill Masterton Trophys
4 Calder Trophys
4 Conn Smythe Trophys
4 Selke Trophys
9 Hart Trophys
7 Norris Trophys
4 Jack Adam Trophys
1 King Clancy Trophy
11 Lady Byng Trophys
2 Lester B. Pearson Trophys
7 Lester Patrick Trophys
5 Vezina Trophys
1 Jennings

If you ask me, that's a pretty nice resume for a franchise.
 

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For crying out loud Krypt, do you read just seleted portions of peoples posts? He isn't denying that the Wings aren't the best market, nor is he saying they are the best supported team. He is saying, and I hope I'm not putting words into his mouth, but they are/were supported enough to keep the team viable, and profitable even during some tough ecconomic times. The ONLY reason NY is and will continue to be the #1 hockey market, is because of the size and population of the City, not because NYC is a hockeytown.

Yes i know what he is saying. that rangers fans are arserags and thats why we have the best hockey market.

Now i take this as a bit of sarcasm or insulting to the fact he thinks otherwise away from the post i just recently quoted him on.

So to paraphrase.... because you Rangers fans are arrogant arserags, you're the best hockey market. Got it.
But then it gets better. he states the wings do sell out all there games. but doesnt mean people show up.

Maybe the word arrogant arserags above should be replaced with passionate rangers fans. If he wants to talk about economy and Dedication of detroits fans so be it but why bring up the topic if he doesnt want a debate back? NYC had its bad times also lets not forget and we remained passionate as he will point out we are aresrags. :rolleyes:

And the Wings do sell out all their games, but that doesnt mean that people show up. This past playoffs has been an exception, but that is more of a show on the economy of the city than the dedication of the fans. Also, I wasn't about to claim Detroit as the best US market, because I don't personally care if they are or if they aren't. I don't get why people are so set on arguing about this.
Now i must ask if he doesnt want debates on the subject weather meaningless or not why bother. My last post to him i provided some good points. did you ever think for a moment AMO that i was giving him some positive responses For crying out loud as to why with the examples i provided him with. Being somewhat in agreement. Other then my first sentence?
 

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Winning.

10 Stanley Cups
5 President Trophys
4 Conference Championships
16 Divisional Titles
33 Hall of Fame Players (With the likes of Stevie Y, Lidstrom, Shanny, Hasek, possibly even Federov all to be inducted)
4 Staff Hall of Fameers (Ken Holland will get the nod soon enough also)
7 Art Ross Trophys
2 Bill Masterton Trophys
4 Calder Trophys
4 Conn Smythe Trophys
4 Selke Trophys
9 Hart Trophys
7 Norris Trophys
4 Jack Adam Trophys
1 King Clancy Trophy
11 Lady Byng Trophys
2 Lester B. Pearson Trophys
7 Lester Patrick Trophys
5 Vezina Trophys
1 Jennings

If you ask me, that's a pretty nice resume for a franchise.

Yes i know great accomplishments. but not really what i was looking for. when you stated most successful i thought you meant something else.

You cold also argue they had some real lengthy bad times also in between. but that should be another thread topic and not here i believe.
 

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Yes i know what he is saying. that rangers fans are arserags and thats why we have the best hockey market.

Now i take this as a bit of sarcasm or insulting to the fact he thinks otherwise away from the post i just recently quoted him on.



But then it gets better. he states the wings do sell out all there games. but doesnt mean people show up.

Maybe the word arrogant arserags above should be replaced with passionate rangers fans. If he wants to talk about economy and Dedication of detroits fans so be it but why bring up the topic if he doesnt want a debate back? NYC had its bad times also lets not forget and we remained passionate as he will point out we are aresrags. :rolleyes:



Now i must ask if he doesnt want debates on the subject weather meaningless or not why bother. My last post to him i provided some good points. did you ever think for a moment AMO that i was giving him some positive responses For crying out loud as to why with the examples i provided him with. Being somewhat in agreement. Other then my first sentence?

The problem as I see it krypt is you kept on arguing your point, when wings already stated that he didn't think the the Wings were the best hockey market. You kept pushing and pushing, like you always do and even tho his remark was wrong, it was out of frustration.
 

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Yes i know great accomplishments. but not really what i was looking for. when you stated most successful i thought you meant something else.

You cold also argue they had some real lengthy bad times also in between. but that should be another thread topic and not here i believe.
What were you looking for than?

They did, but so did so many other teams. Although there unsuccessful times haven't been as long as many others.
 

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When your head stops hurting, tell us why successful investors thought that the NYC market could support 3 hockey teams while no one tried this is Philadelphia. And before you say that it's pointless because everyone is a Flyer fan, almost everyone here is a Ranger fan.
I don't know why successful investors would think that considering most Ranger fans rip on Islander fans for being banwagonners and only supporting the team when they are playing good, and you've already expressed your opinion about Devils fans. So really, there are 3 teams in NYC, but only one that is considered traditionally part of New York as the other two are just sideshows to see when they are doing good or you're bored, I guess. Why hasn't anyone tried this brilliant idea with Philadelphia, well probably because we don't have the population to justify putting another team here, and honestly in Philly if you jumped wagon to a different team, you'd be beaten to death.

So, all you've really done with me is prove that there are in fact three franchises in New York, if you consider New Jersey to be New York. One is supported a good amount of the time when they are losing or winning, but not all the time. The second is for bandwaggoners from the early 80s, or if the team gets good for a little bit. And the third somehow barely keeps itself in business with fans of the visiting team. But Philadelphia, which pack the arena almost every night, win or lose, is a worse market. I guess we have to decide how we are talking hockey market. Do we mean from a fan standpoint?(In which case, there are a couple cities that beat NYC) Or maybe a single owner's standpoint?(Only Philly stands a chance against New York in this comparison) Or the league's standpoint?(Which New York wins based on sheer population and the ability to fill more arenas than some other two cities combined)
 

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Ok to end this once and for all show us evidence that the Wings fans supported the Red Wings Back when they were lossing.

Just cause Rangers fans as myself supported a lossing team in the past could be debated as the population of the area outshines many other hockey markets. Proof enough is that 3 local area teams blog one another within a 10-40-60 min radius of each other. If you took the the attendence of the devils and the islanders together its enough to fill another MSG.

Heck you could add another NHL team in NYC right in Brooklyn and i bet it would sell out. NYC is soon going to be supporting 2 NBA teams as the NETS are going to brooklyn with a new building. Add another hockey team to this building as well. Even so there was talk the Rangers AHL team will move there and for sure they will sell out also. i know i will go. Hockey is the best game ever IMO. People in N.Y know and love Hockey. As far as long island goes alot of the older islanders fans arent around anymore. Long Island priced itself and the many people living here moved to places with more affordable living. i could name off 50 islanders fans i went to school with durring there glory days who moved out of the area. And some jumped on the Rangers bandwagon as well durring the early 90's. Alot of rich out of towners moved to long island and the islanders are a tough sell today cause of bizarre manangment descisions not that the rangers havent had there share also but again population comes into play. But neverless the islanders still have a fan base thats growing and are not going anyplace much like the devils across the river.

Now if detroit was as large as NYC im sure even if lossing they would have a full house and could possibly lay claim as Hockeytown. As it is now The Flyers would be a stronger canadate to fill that fill that position next to the Rangers.

If NYC had detroits population it could be very possible MSG would not sell out. Resulting in a smaller fan base.

I just find it hard to debate why NYC isnt and untill someone can prove otherwise this debate will just keep going. Its really starting to get pointless.
There's no denying that Detroit has a big fanbase (bigger than most, because they've been around for so long). When they won the cup in 02 there were, apparently, over 2 million people partying in the streets. so they easily have enouug fans, enough to sell out. But, why aren't they there? In the news, someone said that even though ticket prices were at a record high, us still wasn, pooling in a lot of money. Maybe that's it, and fans don't like the cost.
 

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Philadelphia sells tickets but the fans treat visiting teams like sub-humans. If Philly fans were allowed to puke on opposing team players they gladly would.

Seems like Ottawa, San Francisco area, Calgary, Detroit, Montreal and Vancouver fans show some all-around respect for the game.
 

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Philadelphia sells tickets but the fans treat visiting teams like sub-humans. If Philly fans were allowed to puke on opposing team players they gladly would.

Seems like Ottawa, San Francisco area, Calgary, Detroit, Montreal and Vancouver fans show some all-around respect for the game.
I wouldnt go that far about the Habs, when I went to see the Habs play the Bruins last year, everyone was swearing, calling names (bad words) on players and their mothers and stuff, it has become a place that you cant bring your kids to anymore
....mind you they already cost so much
 

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Whats the big deal?

Someone is arguing the merits of NYC being the best market, and egads! They may be right!

Its an easy claim to make when you have a metro area of 22 million people. Compare that with Detroit's 4 million.

So in those terms, MSG holds 18,200 while the JLA holds 20,066.

So in order to sell out a game, NYR must sell to tickets to 0.0001% (rounded) of its available population.

While Detroit must sell to 0.005% (rounded). The difference is staggering. NY could have only a passing interest in hockey, the slightest care in the world, and sell out every game with ease.

I dont where this argument is going, so I'll end my post. I always thought Minny was the best hockey market in the US, followed by Philly.

To all...

If Chicago were not owned by Wirtz and actually were semi-competitive, we wouldnt even be having this conversation.
 
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