[charlio lemieux]

ONE game for all the marbles.

1980-present All-time teams.

One Problem. Lemieux and Gretzky are on the other team.

To keep things easier, let's say the top 2 lines and D pairs, play the entire game.

What would it take to beat these guys? Remember it's 1980-Present

Challenge Squad:

Robitaille - Gretzky - Kurri
Kariya - Lemieux - Selanne

Pronger- Bourque
Chelios - Leetch

Roy


Pretty sick line-up. Gretzky is with his two best line-mates at the same time. Remember what Kariya and Selanne did with Steve Rucchin for a center. With Lemieux there simply may be no answer. Too many norris trophies to count on the back end. Roy is an all-time great in net.

MY Team:

I think to beat them, I need to go with more 2-way players and some size. Still it's going to take a lot of offense to outscore these guys.


Ovechkin - Trottier - Jagr
Tkachuk - Lindros - Bossy

Lidstrom - MacInnis
Coffey - Blake

Hasek


I think with OVy and Jagr I have the advantage on the wing for the 1st line. IF Trottier can limit Gretzky in any way I think I win.

I like LIndros' size against Lemieux. Tkachuk was faster than Shanny before his MC-D's diet over the lockout. Speed is going to be an issue in dealing with the 2nd line.

It's going to be hard to beat a Pronger-Bourque pairing on the D, but I think Big MAc and Lidstrom can hold Robitaille and Kurri to minimal scoring.

Coffey is the best offensive D-man between the two squads and pairing him with an all-round stud like Blake gives me the edge on the second pairing, even though Leetch and Chelios is a deadly combo.

Roy might be one of the best ever but I think I have the best of the best from the last 30 years. Hasek is The Man.

I think my teams takes the challenge squad in 6.

Hasek MVP!

There are a ton of guys who could be on a squad to beat he Challlenge squad. Who do you think could do it?

 

[SabresFan101]

Good matchup Charlio. This is tough, i gotta hold up on my vote. These two lines are amazing.

 

[Goalie Guru]

ONE game for all the marbles.

1980-present All-time teams.

One Problem. Lemieux and Gretzky are on the other team.

To keep things easier, let's say the top 2 lines and D pairs, play the entire game.

What would it take to beat these guys? Remember it's 1980-Present

Challenge Squad:

Robitaille - Gretzky - Kurri
Kariya - Lemieux - Selanne

Pronger- Bourque
Chelios - Leetch

Roy


Pretty sick line-up. Gretzky is with his two best line-mates at the same time. Remember what Kariya and Selanne did with Steve Rucchin for a center. With Lemieux there simply may be no answer. Too many norris trophies to count on the back end. Roy is an all-time great in net.

MY Team:

I think to beat them, I need to go with more 2-way players and some size. Still it's going to take a lot of offense to outscore these guys.


Ovechkin - Trottier - Jagr
Tkachuk - Lindros - Bossy

Lidstrom - MacInnis
Coffey - Blake

Hasek


I think with OVy and Jagr I have the advantage on the wing for the 1st line. IF Trottier can limit Gretzky in any way I think I win.

I like LIndros' size against Lemieux. Tkachuk was faster than Shanny before his MC-D's diet over the lockout. Speed is going to be an issue in dealing with the 2nd line.

It's going to be hard to beat a Pronger-Bourque pairing on the D, but I think Big MAc and Lidstrom can hold Robitaille and Kurri to minimal scoring.

Coffey is the best offensive D-man between the two squads and pairing him with an all-round stud like Blake gives me the edge on the second pairing, even though Leetch and Chelios is a deadly combo.

Roy might be one of the best ever but I think I have the best of the best from the last 30 years. Hasek is The Man.

I think my teams takes the challenge squad in 6.

Hasek MVP!

There are a ton of guys who could be on a squad to beat he Challlenge squad. Who do you think could do it?

Love your team. Trottier most underrated of all time. Played both ends of the ice and went into corners and fought for pucks unlike most centres. Hasek is the only question mark.

 

[wingsnut19]

Hasek is the only question mark.

Stop. Being. A. Troll.

 

[charlio lemieux]

Stop. Being. A. Troll.

I know but I am going to bite. lol
This should be good!

Love your team. Trottier most underrated of all time. Played both ends of the ice and went into corners and fought for pucks unlike most centres. Hasek is the only question mark.

How is Hasek the Question mark?

I would have thought it would be trying to shut down the Lemieux line. Coffey should be able to keep up with Kariya but Selanne might slip past Blake a few times.


At any rate:

Why aren't you guys making your own teams?

There are tons of players who could line up against the Challenge Squad and give them a run for their money.
Feel free to use some of the players I took. But I was tihnking there are still guys like Yzerman, Gilmour, Forsberg, Sakic, Bure, Moginly, Fedorov, Iginla, Crosby, Malkin, Chara, Zubov, Stevens heck I even left Niedermayer, Neely and Hull out there. Sabresfan, I know you got a team.

There is a huge list of talent to choose from. Make a team.

 

[Goalie Guru]

I know but I am going to bite. lol
This should be good!


How is Hasek the Question mark?

I would have thought it would be trying to shut down the Lemieux line. Coffey should be able to keep up with Kariya but Selanne might slip past Blake a few times.


At any rate:

Why aren't you guys making your own teams?

There are tons of players who could line up against the Challenge Squad and give them a run for their money.
Feel free to use some of the players I took. But I was tihnking there are still guys like Yzerman, Gilmour, Forsberg, Sakic, Bure, Moginly, Fedorov, Iginla, Crosby, Malkin, Chara, Zubov, Stevens heck I even left Niedermayer, Neely and Hull out there. Sabresfan, I know you got a team.

There is a huge list of talent to choose from. Make a team.

Hasek had some good stats in Buffalo but considering Buffalo is a defense first team I think he is a benefactor of the system. Yes this is like Brodeur. He won the Vezina in 2000-2001 with a .921 SP and a 2.11 GAA. He left for Detroit the next season and the Buffalo GM and coach must have crapped their pants losing Hasek. But Biron who replaced him in 72 games as a rookie starter in the league went .915 and had a 2.22 GAA.

Again, how do you lose the so called best goalie in the world the season before only to have your back up do a job just as well. By the way Hasek was a .915 with a 2.17 the year Biron had a .915 with a 2.22 for a less talented team.

Oh ya, when the Czechs won the gold medal Canada had only three shots in the slot, and one went in. The other two shots hit Hasek in the belly button. The remaining shots were all from the perimeters. I taped the game and have broken it down shot by shot so please don't argue. Then in the gold medal game against Russia, he faced only 19 shots, only 2 from the slot and both were not good scoring chances. So yes again, the Czech defense and the defensive systems were the star of the show. But that is not sexy is it. A great goalie sounds better and is better television than 'wow what a box out system keeping all shots to the perimeters'.

I know, I know. I'm crazy for thinking this is and I make no sense, and I am a troll for saying my opinion and providing facts.

Take care everybody. This forum wasn't ready for me I guess!

 

[esuhock22]

Hasek had some good stats in Buffalo but considering Buffalo is a defense first team I think he is a benefactor of the system. Yes this is like Brodeur. He won the Vezina in 2000-2001 with a .921 SP and a 2.11 GAA. He left for Detroit the next season and the Buffalo GM and coach must have crapped their pants losing Hasek. But Biron who replaced him in 72 games as a rookie starter in the league went .915 and had a 2.22 GAA.

Again, how do you lose the so called best goalie in the world the season before only to have your back up do a job just as well. By the way Hasek was a .915 with a 2.17 the year Biron had a .915 with a 2.22 for a less talented team.

Oh ya, when the Czechs won the gold medal Canada had only three shots in the slot, and one went in. The other two shots hit Hasek in the belly button. The remaining shots were all from the perimeters. I taped the game and have broken it down shot by shot so please don't argue. Then in the gold medal game against Russia, he faced only 19 shots, only 2 from the slot and both were not good scoring chances. So yes again, the Czech defense and the defensive systems were the star of the show. But that is not sexy is it. A great goalie sounds better and is better television than 'wow what a box out system keeping all shots to the perimeters'.

I know, I know. I'm crazy for thinking this is and I make no sense, and I am a troll for saying my opinion and providing facts.

Take care everybody. This forum wasn't ready for me I guess!

No, you are a troll for bringing up the same stuff in every thread. We get it, you think a lot of goaltenders weren't that good. No one here agrees with you and it won't matter if you throw 5325346526 stats up.

And whatever helps you sleep at night. You've been around other forums as well so I ask, have you found one person that agrees with you?

 

[wingsnut19]

Hasek had some good stats in Buffalo but considering Buffalo is a defense first team I think he is a benefactor of the system. Yes this is like Brodeur. He won the Vezina in 2000-2001 with a .921 SP and a 2.11 GAA. He left for Detroit the next season and the Buffalo GM and coach must have crapped their pants losing Hasek. But Biron who replaced him in 72 games as a rookie starter in the league went .915 and had a 2.22 GAA.

Again, how do you lose the so called best goalie in the world the season before only to have your back up do a job just as well. By the way Hasek was a .915 with a 2.17 the year Biron had a .915 with a 2.22 for a less talented team.

Oh ya, when the Czechs won the gold medal Canada had only three shots in the slot, and one went in. The other two shots hit Hasek in the belly button. The remaining shots were all from the perimeters. I taped the game and have broken it down shot by shot so please don't argue. Then in the gold medal game against Russia, he faced only 19 shots, only 2 from the slot and both were not good scoring chances. So yes again, the Czech defense and the defensive systems were the star of the show. But that is not sexy is it. A great goalie sounds better and is better television than 'wow what a box out system keeping all shots to the perimeters'.

I know, I know. I'm crazy for thinking this is and I make no sense, and I am a troll for saying my opinion and providing facts.

Take care everybody. This forum wasn't ready for me I guess!

What a joke. I've been fairly restrained up until this point, but I'm done with that now. Hasek leading up to 1999-2000 lead the league in save percentage for 6 years in a row. He peaked at .937 in 98-99, which is also the year that he almost single handedly brought the Sabres to the Stanley Cup finals. In 1999-2000, Hasek missed a large part of the year, and played a decent bit of it with a bad groin injury. He ended up needing surgery. For a goalie like Hasek, who relied on mobility and reflexes in order to succeed, a major injury like this was quite substantial, and ended up shortening his peak. Basically, you picked a year that was the start of the end of Hasek's peak (and he still managed to win the Vezina Trophy). If you did your research with even a semblance of objectivity, you would have picked that up right away. But of course it was much more convenient to completely ignore all that and use that information as proof of Hasek being overrated.

Also, the Sabres, with Hasek, had only missed the playoffs once. They went to the Conference Finals in 98, and the Cup finals in 99, riding the back of Hasek. After Hasek left, the Sabres missed the playoffs three years in a row. I'd assume that yes, this was a cause for concern for Sabres management.

If that isn't enough yet, we'll take it further. You're talking like the difference between a 0.921 save % and a 0.915 save % isn't significant. In the case of Hasek's 2001 year, if he had had a save % of 0.915 instead of 0.921, that would have resulted in 10 extra goals against. Anyone who watches the sport and sees the amount of close games there are, understands that that number is huge. You're also comparing one of Hasek's worst years in the league to Biron's second best. Hasek also stood on his head for the Wings in the 01-02 playoffs and posted 6 shutouts to help them win the Stanley Cup.

You think you are providing us with facts? All you are doing is reducing a great players career to one season to fit your arguments. You completely ignored what is probably the best peak for any goalie in NHL history, being the 6 years leading the NHL in save percentage, 6 Vezina Trophies, and back to back Hart Trophies. He also holds the NHL record for career save percentage, at 0.922. So you'll forgive me if I don't buy your argument that Hasek is the weak link on any all-time team, and if I continue to think your opinion is nothing but nonsensical spewings of some jaded fan.

 

[Goalie Guru]

What a joke. I've been fairly restrained up until this point, but I'm done with that now. Hasek leading up to 1999-2000 lead the league in save percentage for 6 years in a row. He peaked at .937 in 98-99, which is also the year that he almost single handedly brought the Sabres to the Stanley Cup finals. In 1999-2000, Hasek missed a large part of the year, and played a decent bit of it with a bad groin injury. He ended up needing surgery. For a goalie like Hasek, who relied on mobility and reflexes in order to succeed, a major injury like this was quite substantial, and ended up shortening his peak. Basically, you picked a year that was the start of the end of Hasek's peak (and he still managed to win the Vezina Trophy). If you did your research with even a semblance of objectivity, you would have picked that up right away. But of course it was much more convenient to completely ignore all that and use that information as proof of Hasek being overrated.

Also, the Sabres, with Hasek, had only missed the playoffs once. They went to the Conference Finals in 98, and the Cup finals in 99, riding the back of Hasek. After Hasek left, the Sabres missed the playoffs three years in a row. I'd assume that yes, this was a cause for concern for Sabres management.

If that isn't enough yet, we'll take it further. You're talking like the difference between a 0.921 save % and a 0.915 save % isn't significant. In the case of Hasek's 2001 year, if he had had a save % of 0.915 instead of 0.921, that would have resulted in 10 extra goals against. Anyone who watches the sport and sees the amount of close games there are, understands that that number is huge. You're also comparing one of Hasek's worst years in the league to Biron's second best. Hasek also stood on his head for the Wings in the 01-02 playoffs and posted 6 shutouts to help them win the Stanley Cup.

You think you are providing us with facts? All you are doing is reducing a great players career to one season to fit your arguments. You completely ignored what is probably the best peak for any goalie in NHL history, being the 6 years leading the NHL in save percentage, 6 Vezina Trophies, and back to back Hart Trophies. He also holds the NHL record for career save percentage, at 0.922. So you'll forgive me if I don't buy your argument that Hasek is the weak link on any all-time team, and if I continue to think your opinion is nothing but nonsensical spewings of some jaded fan.

Stanley Cup Finals 2001-02 shots on goal...

Detroit versus Carolina Irbe versus Hasek...

Game 1 Detroit 26 shots 2 goals, Carolina 25 shots 3 goals
Game 2 Detroit 30 shots 3 goals, Carolina 17 shots 1 goal
Game 3 Detroit 53 shots 3 goals, Carolina 43 shots 2 goals
Game 4 Detroit 27 shots 3 goals, Carolina 17 sgots 0 goals
Game 5 Detroit 26 shots 2 goals, Carolina 17 shots 1 goal

The only game that was close in shots (game 1) Hasek lost, but when his team out shot the opponent by an average of 10.5 shots, he won!

I guess Irbe sucked! Thank gosh for Hasek!

 

[wingsnut19]

Stanley Cup Finals 2001-02 shots on goal...

Detroit versus Carolina Irbe versus Hasek...

Game 1 Detroit 26 shots 2 goals, Carolina 25 shots 3 goals
Game 2 Detroit 30 shots 3 goals, Carolina 17 shots 1 goal
Game 3 Detroit 53 shots 3 goals, Carolina 43 shots 2 goals
Game 4 Detroit 27 shots 3 goals, Carolina 17 sgots 0 goals
Game 5 Detroit 26 shots 2 goals, Carolina 17 shots 1 goal

The only game that was close in shots (game 1) Hasek lost, but when his team out shot the opponent by an average of 10.5 shots, he won!

I guess Irbe sucked! Thank gosh for Hasek!

Hasek lost? The team lost. The Red Wings had just come off a grueling 7 game series against the Colorado Avalanche and were visibly tired.

And really? This is your argument? In those 5 games, Hasek posted a save percentage of about 0.941. And you're trying to use them as an example of how poorly Hasek played?

I never said Irbe sucked. But yes, thank gosh for Hasek.

Back tracking a little bit. The Buffalo Sabres were defensively oriented? I didn't realize that the Sabres teams in the 90's were effective at anything, except riding the shoulders of Hasek. And when you look at the numbers, it doesn't add up. In his years as the starting goalie for Buffalo, Hasek faced 13650 shots in 463 games. That's 29.5 shots per game. Not exactly defensively proficient.

 

[Yzerfan]

Charlio's thread has turned into another goalie argument?? :dunno:

 

[wingsnut19]

Charlio's thread has turned into another goalie argument?? :dunno:

Blame Charlio. He's the one that started feeding the troll. :biggrin:

 

[Yzerfan]

New Rule: No feeding the troll.

 

[Goalie Guru]

Hasek lost? The team lost. The Red Wings had just come off a grueling 7 game series against the Colorado Avalanche and were visibly tired.

And really? This is your argument? In those 5 games, Hasek posted a save percentage of about 0.941. And you're trying to use them as an example of how poorly Hasek played?

I never said Irbe sucked. But yes, thank gosh for Hasek.

Back tracking a little bit. The Buffalo Sabres were defensively oriented? I didn't realize that the Sabres teams in the 90's were effective at anything, except riding the shoulders of Hasek. And when you look at the numbers, it doesn't add up. In his years as the starting goalie for Buffalo, Hasek faced 13650 shots in 463 games. That's 29.5 shots per game. Not exactly defensively proficient.

I'll throw in that Detroit outshot Colarado 32 to 24 for an 8 shot per game difference.

As far as the 29.5 per game average on Hasek over his career I will just ignore those stats and blow them off as nothing like people do to my stats. Just like you blew off that the Wings out shot Carolina by 10.5 shots on their wins as nothing which is as you say to me, is "a joke".

Peace!

By the way, at least this is more fun than most of the threads on here! At least we are now doing what a forum should be, debating! As gentlemen!

 

[wingsnut19]

I'll throw in that Detroit outshot Colarado 32 to 24 for an 8 shot per game difference.

As far as the 29.5 per game average on Hasek over his career I will just ignore those stats and blow them off as nothing like people do to my stats. Just like you blew off that the Wings out shot Carolina by 10.5 shots on their wins as nothing which is as you say to me, is "a joke".

Peace!

By the way, at least this is more fun than most of the threads on here! At least we are now doing what a forum should be, debating! As gentlemen!

Because it doesn't matter that Detroit outshot the Canes by 10 shots/ game. Hasek still had a 0.941 save percentage. I don't know why you are so fixated on what team outshot which. It really has nothing to do with the goalies performance in those games. Especially considering that Hasek was one of those goalies that performed better when he faced more shots, and had a harder time when he was standing around a lot. He'd get bored and start wandering too much.

Of course you want to ignore the 29.5 shots/ game, since it completely takes away one of your arguments as to why Hasek did so well with the Sabres (best peak of any goalie in NHL history). But you also ignored every other point I've made in this thread, so it isn't overly surprising.

 

[viperstar]

Yes we are debating but at the same time. We are debating about the same thing over and over again. And that is goalies ... T_T

 

[charlio lemieux]

Charlio's thread has turned into another goalie argument?? :dunno:

:cry
My poor thread!

Blame Charlio. He's the one that started feeding the troll. :biggrin:

Yes I did. My fault. Just wanted to see how somebody could rag on Hasek's game.

Made me laugh. :laugh:


Will Somebody post a different team already!!!!

 

[Goalie Guru]

ONE game for all the marbles.

1980-present All-time teams.

One Problem. Lemieux and Gretzky are on the other team.

To keep things easier, let's say the top 2 lines and D pairs, play the entire game.

What would it take to beat these guys? Remember it's 1980-Present

Challenge Squad:

Robitaille - Gretzky - Kurri
Kariya - Lemieux - Selanne

Pronger- Bourque
Chelios - Leetch

Roy


Pretty sick line-up. Gretzky is with his two best line-mates at the same time. Remember what Kariya and Selanne did with Steve Rucchin for a center. With Lemieux there simply may be no answer. Too many norris trophies to count on the back end. Roy is an all-time great in net.

MY Team:

I think to beat them, I need to go with more 2-way players and some size. Still it's going to take a lot of offense to outscore these guys.


Ovechkin - Trottier - Jagr
Tkachuk - Lindros - Bossy

Lidstrom - MacInnis
Coffey - Blake

Hasek


I think with OVy and Jagr I have the advantage on the wing for the 1st line. IF Trottier can limit Gretzky in any way I think I win.

I like LIndros' size against Lemieux. Tkachuk was faster than Shanny before his MC-D's diet over the lockout. Speed is going to be an issue in dealing with the 2nd line.

It's going to be hard to beat a Pronger-Bourque pairing on the D, but I think Big MAc and Lidstrom can hold Robitaille and Kurri to minimal scoring.

Coffey is the best offensive D-man between the two squads and pairing him with an all-round stud like Blake gives me the edge on the second pairing, even though Leetch and Chelios is a deadly combo.

Roy might be one of the best ever but I think I have the best of the best from the last 30 years. Hasek is The Man.

I think my teams takes the


challenge squad in 6.

Hasek MVP!

There are a ton of guys who could be on a squad to beat he Challlenge squad. Who do you think could do it?

How about...

Andreychuk-Sakic-Bossy
Zetterberg-Yzerman-Hull

Potvin-Murphy
Niedermayer-Macinnis

Belfour

 

[viperstar]

How about...

Andreychuk-Sakic-Bossy
Zetterberg-Yzerman-Hull

Potvin-Murphy
Niedermayer-Macinnis

Belfour

What are your reasons behind your choices ? Just wondering ;O

 

[Goalie Guru]

What are your reasons behind your choices ? Just wondering ;O

Forwards: Two forwards that are responsible in their own that can pass the puck and are good penalty killers with pure and natural goal scorers Hull and Bossy.

Defense: One that can pass and make smart decisions with a partner that can bomb it from the point, Potvin and Macinnis. Also left and right combinations from both sides amkes it tougher on penalty killers taht may be stronger from one side.

Goaltender: Kept it simple, decent technique (strong stance and posture including spine angle, good lateral transfer rotation, decent save techniques, good gap control etc) . But, it really could have been forty different guys in the modern era only. Honest answer, not 'trolling".