No thanks. We don't need to dump Kaberle's salary we should be able to get WAY more than that for Kaberle and Stajan.
More like Kaberle for LA 1st - 5th
If Kabs was worth anything like that do you think he would stil be a LEaf right now? Burke would have dumped him for a top 10 pick in a heartbeat if he could. Kabs by himself is unfortunatly not worth more than a late 1st rnd pick.
Did hear there is an offer for Kabs on the table. No word on who or what, just that Burke is going to see if anyone wants to top it.
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You ask Ovechkin if he would trade his Art Ross and Richard Trophies, to trade places with Sidney Crosby last June.
it looked like Boston wanted kaberle for kessle and a pick, but it fell through. I personnally dont want kabby to go but if we get a pick and kessel for him then there is no reason for him to stay.
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I'd be happy with something a little less than the Pronger deal in terms of return for the Leafs.
Pronger's an elite defensemen. Kaberle is a very good defensemen. There's a difference.
Kaberle won't net anywhere near the return that Pronger got. Maybe a roster player and a prospect at the most. Maybe only a first round pick. But there's no way that Kaberle nets anything even resembling the Pronger deal.
Pronger gets a young 30 goal scorer, a blue-chip defensive prospect, two first round picks and a third round pick. No way that Kaberle gets "a little less" than that in return. A significant amount less? Yes. A little? No.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaCabe
it looked like Boston wanted kaberle for kessle and a pick, but it fell through. I personnally dont want kabby to go but if we get a pick and kessel for him then there is no reason for him to stay.
Toronto thought they were getting Kessel and the Bruins first round pick pick for Kaberle and Boston thought that they were getting Kaberle and the Leafs first round pick for Kessel. The Leafs were never going to get Kessel and a pick for Kaberle, the two teams just got their signals crossed and both thought they were getting the pick.
Boston never wanted Kaberle while giving up Kessel and a pick.
Pronger's an elite defensemen. Kaberle is a very good defensemen. There's a difference.
Kaberle won't net anywhere near the return that Pronger got. Maybe a roster player and a prospect at the most. Maybe only a first round pick. But there's no way that Kaberle nets anything even resembling the Pronger deal.
Pronger gets a young 30 goal scorer, a blue-chip defensive prospect, two first round picks and a third round pick. No way that Kaberle gets "a little less" than that in return. A significant amount less? Yes. A little? No.
08-09
GP 57 G 4 A 27 PTS 31
0.544 ppg
*44-45 pts in 82 game season.
07-08
GP 82 G 8 A 45 PTS 53
Enough for 9th in the league among defence
06-07
GP 74 G 11 A 47 PTS 58
PPG= 0.784
*64-65 pts in 82 game season among defence
05-06
GP 82 G 9 A 58 PTS 67
Enough for fifth in the league
(ALL stats can be found at NHL.com)
It is important to note that since the lockout Kaberle has had two of four seasons where he has outscored Pronger, obviously not saying that that automatically makes him better then Pronger but just pointing it out.
Up until last season Kaberle was the fifth highestest scorering defenceman in the NHL. Couple that with the fact that he is now a two time all-star, winner of the most accurate shot widely thought to have had a legitmate positional game and up until last season had averaged 26-30 minutes a game.
Thesew facts might be meaningless to some citing that Kaberle had a dramatically worse season last year, but one needs to remember with the aquisition of Van Ryn, the Aquiring of Scheen, the emergance of White Kaberle say 5 minutes less of ice-time. Noting that his ice-time will probably not increase next season as well I fully expect Kaberle to adjust his game accordingly, he will have much more energy and I think he will have a redeeming season.
That being said one bad season does not induce armegedon, Even with reduced icetime. Norris trophey winner CHara fell off the map as a top 5 defenceman when he went to Boston having only accumulated 43 points in his first season, making some wonder if he would turnout to become a flop, but after the 06-07 season he had a great comeback season giving him a Norris runner-up followed by a Norris trophey for 08-09. Simular situtations can be painted for Chris Pronger to Rob Blake.
St the end of the day though, I think that the simple fact that in his worst season since hte lockout by him being reivited to the all-star game by the coaches and gms suggusts that the NHL thinks Kaberle is an upper echelon defenceman in the NHL, and since the movement of Pronger and Bouwmester Kabelre has just become the number one guy on any GMs list if they need an elite puck-moving defenceman, the first passer and the PP QB.
Things adding to Kaberle's trade value, his lack of injuries, unlike players like Pronger Kaberle doesn't get injured often and is dependable. Value of his contract, making more the 3 million less then "elite" players such as Campbell, Pronger, and more then likely Bouwmeester. Loyalty, Kaberle does what is need for the team he has never coughed up the puck to avoid a hit, he goes the extra mile when it comes to the team such as a fishing trip with relucent European prospect Tlusty who wasn't sure he even wanted to play in the NHL, Kabelre convinced him to join the OHL in one week. The intangbles of Kaberle are as long as his tangles, Kaberle is an elite talent, a unique talent and a great playwer and individual which mopst teams envy.
That being said, if his market value isn't as high as it should be Burke is not goign to dump Kaberle. We need to fill a roster with three more players and we have 20 million in cxap to do it, we have ZERO cap issues this coming seasona nde ven the next. Burke has openly said he will only trade Kaberle with deep regret because to replace would be nearly impossible plus incredibly expensive, that Kaberle has given so much to the team itself. So if his market value isn't high Kaberele is a leafer and that is not only okay by Burke, but it is okay by me aswell.
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for more of my thoughts on life, leafs or hockey in general check out my hcokey forums blog
Pronger's an elite defensemen. Kaberle is a very good defensemen. There's a difference.
Kaberle won't net anywhere near the return that Pronger got. Maybe a roster player and a prospect at the most. Maybe only a first round pick. But there's no way that Kaberle nets anything even resembling the Pronger deal.
Pronger gets a young 30 goal scorer, a blue-chip defensive prospect, two first round picks and a third round pick. No way that Kaberle gets "a little less" than that in return. A significant amount less? Yes. A little? No.
Toronto thought they were getting Kessel and the Bruins first round pick pick for Kaberle and Boston thought that they were getting Kaberle and the Leafs first round pick for Kessel. The Leafs were never going to get Kessel and a pick for Kaberle, the two teams just got their signals crossed and both thought they were getting the pick.
Boston never wanted Kaberle while giving up Kessel and a pick.
I'm not comparing the two as near equal, but you have to look at supply and demand. Who else out there is as attractive as Kaberle in the free market now?
I'm not comparing the two as near equal, but you have to look at supply and demand. Who else out there is as attractive as Kaberle in the free market now?
Is Kabby really in the free market?
Burke seems to be holding him for ransom.
If the Leafs could get one blue-chip prospect for him I would be happy.
SO who needs him?
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You ask Ovechkin if he would trade his Art Ross and Richard Trophies, to trade places with Sidney Crosby last June.
It is important to note that since the lockout Kaberle has had two of four seasons where he has outscored Pronger, obviously not saying that that automatically makes him better then Pronger but just pointing it out.
There's more to Pronger then offensive numbers. He goes out there and shuts down guys all the time. He's a team leader (which the Flyers lacked on the blueline since Hatcher disappeared), and he knows how to win. He's won a Stanley Cup. He's got a hard edge to his play to keep speedy forwards from taking advantage of him.
If I'm taking either Pronger or Kaberle to lead my team to the Stanley Cup Final and give us a legitimate shot at winning, I'm taking Pronger every day of the week and twice on Sunday. That's why he got what he got, because the Flyers want the shot at the Cup.
Not to mention Pronger has a Norris and Hart Trophy to his name. Know how many defensemen have won the Hart Trophy in the modern era? Two. Pronger and Bobby Orr.
Kaberle's good, but he's not on the same level as Pronger. If a team wants a strictly offensive defensemen who shies away from physical play, isn't much of a team leader and hasn't actually won anything in his career, then they'll make a trade. He's still not going to get anything like the return of Pronger, if he could get anything close, he would be gone already.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaCabe
Up until last season Kaberle was the fifth highestest scorering defenceman in the NHL. Couple that with the fact that he is now a two time all-star, winner of the most accurate shot widely thought to have had a legitmate positional game and up until last season had averaged 26-30 minutes a game.
We're talking about All-Star games now? Give me a break. Even though Kaberle is a two-time All-Star, Pronger's a five-time All-Star. It really is irrelevant to bring up a game based on fun.
Pronger has a legitimate positional game as well as the hard nose style to keep players honest. He also averaged 25-30 minutes a night, even though the Ducks also had Scott Niedermayer on the team.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaCabe
Thesew facts might be meaningless to some citing that Kaberle had a dramatically worse season last year, but one needs to remember with the aquisition of Van Ryn, the Aquiring of Scheen, the emergance of White Kaberle say 5 minutes less of ice-time. Noting that his ice-time will probably not increase next season as well I fully expect Kaberle to adjust his game accordingly, he will have much more energy and I think he will have a redeeming season.
If he's a member of the Leafs that is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaCabe
That being said one bad season does not induce armegedon, Even with reduced icetime. Norris trophey winner CHara fell off the map as a top 5 defenceman when he went to Boston having only accumulated 43 points in his first season, making some wonder if he would turnout to become a flop, but after the 06-07 season he had a great comeback season giving him a Norris runner-up followed by a Norris trophey for 08-09. Simular situtations can be painted for Chris Pronger to Rob Blake.
No one said that one bad season is Armageddon. I said he's not on Pronger's level. And he isn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaCabe
St the end of the day though, I think that the simple fact that in his worst season since hte lockout by him being reivited to the all-star game by the coaches and gms suggusts that the NHL thinks Kaberle is an upper echelon defenceman in the NHL, and since the movement of Pronger and Bouwmester Kabelre has just become the number one guy on any GMs list if they need an elite puck-moving defenceman, the first passer and the PP QB.
The All-Star thing again? Kaberle being invited doesn't suggest the NHL thinks he's an elite level defensemen. It just suggests that they needed someone from the Leafs to have representation for all 30 teams. If he didn't go, who would go from the Leafs? Moore?
Pronger and Bouwmeester are all round players, not just a first passer and PP QB.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaCabe
Things adding to Kaberle's trade value, his lack of injuries, unlike players like Pronger Kaberle doesn't get injured often and is dependable. Value of his contract, making more the 3 million less then "elite" players such as Campbell, Pronger, and more then likely Bouwmeester. Loyalty, Kaberle does what is need for the team he has never coughed up the puck to avoid a hit, he goes the extra mile when it comes to the team such as a fishing trip with relucent European prospect Tlusty who wasn't sure he even wanted to play in the NHL, Kabelre convinced him to join the OHL in one week. The intangbles of Kaberle are as long as his tangles, Kaberle is an elite talent, a unique talent and a great playwer and individual which mopst teams envy.
Outside of his lack of injuries and his contract, none of those things add to his value. Wow, he doesn't cough up the puck to avoid a hit? That's to be expected from any hockey player. And he convinced a player to join the OHL? Wow, surely if the team had competent scouting, they could have convinced him of that too.
Kaberle is not an elite talent. He's a very good talent, but not on the elite level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaCabe
That being said, if his market value isn't as high as it should be Burke is not goign to dump Kaberle. We need to fill a roster with three more players and we have 20 million in cxap to do it, we have ZERO cap issues this coming seasona nde ven the next. Burke has openly said he will only trade Kaberle with deep regret because to replace would be nearly impossible plus incredibly expensive, that Kaberle has given so much to the team itself. So if his market value isn't high Kaberele is a leafer and that is not only okay by Burke, but it is okay by me aswell.
If you think that his market value is anywhere near Prongers, then you're going to be sadly disappointed if he's moved.
You know that you aren't going to get Kessel, Hunwick, two 1sts and a 3rd for Kaberle. You know this, either subconsciously or consciously, because you got excited over Kessel and a 1st.
I'm not saying that Kaberle has no market value. His market value just isn't that of Pronger's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey84
I'm not comparing the two as near equal, but you have to look at supply and demand. Who else out there is as attractive as Kaberle in the free market now?
Nobody, but Kaberle isn't on the same level as Pronger, so even thinking that a similar package is going to come through for Kaberle simply because of supply and demand is insane.
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlio lemieux
Is Kabby really in the free market?
Burke seems to be holding him for ransom.
If the Leafs could get one blue-chip prospect for him I would be happy.
SO who needs him?
Thank God. Someone who doesn't believe that Kaberle is going to bring a Pronger package to Toronto.
The most recent offer was Kessel for him. That's possibly as good as it'll get.
There's more to Pronger then offensive numbers. He goes out there and shuts down guys all the time. He's a team leader (which the Flyers lacked on the blueline since Hatcher disappeared), and he knows how to win. He's won a Stanley Cup. He's got a hard edge to his play to keep speedy forwards from taking advantage of him.
HOw true.
Think of this way. YOu are a forward rushing into the corner after a loose puck. Who would you rather see racing for the puck with you? Kaberle or Pronger?
Answer is Kaberle easy. YOu know if/when you go into a corner with Pronger you will be feeling it for a few days after. Pronger is stronger, tougher and meaner than Kaberle with atleast as much offensive talent. We are talking about a hart trophy winner here.
Quote:
Thank God. Someone who doesn't believe that Kaberle is going to bring a Pronger package to Toronto.
The most recent offer was Kessel for him. That's possibly as good as it'll get.
Kessel for Kaberle straight up? Any day of the week.
I mentioned in another thread I would consider throwing in a 3rd with Kabs to get it done. Not the 7th pick overall but a pick none the less.
With what Pronger got I could see Kabs getting 2 late rnd 1st picks. Or a late 1st and an over-paid young player. Before the Pronger deal I would have, and did say that he has no more value than a late 1st rounder. Somewhere in the 18-25 range. Prongers deal has bumped the market value up but not enough to warrant 2 late 1st's and a bluechip prospect for Kaberle.
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You ask Ovechkin if he would trade his Art Ross and Richard Trophies, to trade places with Sidney Crosby last June.
Possible Draft day trade situations for the Leafs
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