Daryl Shilling

I know it's exactly a news flash to say, but it seems that he's flying under the radar this year. Plus, the Leafs are having a very tough year. It certainly isn't Sundin's fault, though.

Just dig the numbers:

Leafs +/- per 60 minutes with Sundin on/off the ice
On: 2.11
Off: -.056

The club is drastically better Sundin on the ice. Again, it's not like that's stunning news, but I just thought I'd share it with Leafers.

For fun (well, not so fun for the fans), let's compare Sundin's numbers to Bryan McCabe:

Leafs +/- per 60 minutes with McCabe on/off the ice
On: -0.66
Off: 0.92

The Leafs are good while Bryan McCabe is on the bench. Problem is, he's playing almost 27 minutes a night.

Daryl

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Leafs1003

i was pretty pissed off to read that saku koivu has more votes then Sundin. Sundin should be on this allstar team.

Mccabes dumb.. He is a good player but he takes stupid penalties that hurt our team. He is just dumb. He is good on the offensive side and good when he isnt taking these stupid penalties but we cant hide the fact that he cant stop holding. Get 2 mins for defending the kids is ok but for holding when you make 7 million screw that. I love bashing on him!

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hockeyboy14

You compare with McCabe, however when he was playing less, his numbers were horrible, however since he's been playing close to 30 minutes his play has been better (which sounds odd) but theres stranger things, like goalies prefer having more shots instead of waiting around.

Nonetheless Snats has been amazing thus far. I'm curious to see how he would rank against Zetterberg, Crosby and Lecavalier.

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Daryl Shilling

Yeah, I think that's to be expected, given his circumstances.

In the first quarter of the season, his main defense partner was Ian White, and he got a lot of time with guys like Chad Kilger and Alexander Steen up front.

In this second quarter, he's been partnering with Kaberle, with Sundin and Blake up front. That wouldn't hurt anybody.

Crosby: +0.95, -0.79 (+1.74)
Zetterberg: +2.01, +0.48, (+1.53)
Lecavalier: +1.30, -0.87, (+2.17)
(I hope the convention I used is obvious)

Daryl

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Dgill

Wow, Lecavalier really is the difference maker in the Tampa. These are also some pretty neat stats, do you have them all done up for every player, or did you just do each player individually? I wouldn't mind knowing how much the top player on their team actually effects the teams score for each game.

It's also not suprising to see the kind of depth Detroit has when Zetterberg is off the ice. Similar teams such as Ottawa (who is blowing right now), NYR, and Minnesota must all have the same statistics with the likes of Alfie, Shanny, and Gaborik running the show around a strong core group.

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Daryl Shilling

Sorry if there's been a misunderstanding. These stats are not my own work, but rather that of the fine folks at behindthenet.ca. I mentioned their stuff last week in another thread, and (for whatever reason) thought more knew about it.

I had wanted to do something like this (but never got around to it) from the moment I read about this very thing being done in basketball, over at 82games. behindthenet has done a great job of collecting the numbers from NHL scoresheets.

Daryl

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Dgill

No worries Daryl, I was just assuming for I know you have loads of spreadsheets on different work that you have done with statistics. But I'll be sure to check out this link.

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jonlLeafs

Ya I was wondering where you were pulling these numbers from. I was going to say you were pulling them from out of your... (lol) but you then said you got it from a different source. Compiling these numbers probably is not easy.

Anyways, in regards to the McCabe numbers. While I don't disagree that he has played poorly this season (at the beginning anyways), but he has improved. His numbers aren't going to be the best because he is always playing against the other teams best players. Plus when you have goalies like Raycrap in net, it is sure to inflate your +/-. Thank God Maurice has FINALLY come to his senses and made Toskala #1. I live in San Jose so I know how good Toskala is from all the Sharks fans telling me. I had faith that he would turn it around and he has lately. He showed what type of goalie he can be last night against the Preds. Hopefully he can continue to do well even with the Leaf's defense. I was shaking my head at some of the chances the defense was giving the Preds last night and if it weren't for Toskala, they would definitely have lost that game.

Daryl Shilling

Not to disagree with you: playing in front of bad goaltending will hurt your plus/minus numbers. Totally agreed.

Just to straighten out what the stat is: it shows the difference between your +/- when you're on the ice compared to what the team's +/- is when you are off the ice.

In this regard, playing in front of good or bad goaltending doesn't make a difference, since a player's teammate's all play in front of the same goalie.

Daryl

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gagne22

This doesnt exactly show that Lecavalier is THE difference maker...because he plays on a line with St. Louis, right? So thats the two of them together. However, with Sundin, I think we can all agree that hes not playing with another superstar.

Id like to see this number for Mike Richards, seeing as how hes not playing with good players.

edit- I think I read the numbers wrong. .94 for Richards. :-( Still the best on the Flyers though.