If a hard cap is introduced, I don't think it is at all realistic. But hey, that's just me.
Why wouldn't the Leafs be able to sign any of those players if a hard cap is put into place?
They would be well over the limit. Apparently Bettman wants something over the 31 Million range. If they get the CBA done before the season begins and there is a hard cap, no way in hell would the Leafs be even closely under it.
If there was a hard cap put in place it would never be as low as 31 million for a few reasons.
A) Say there was a 31 million dollar cap put into place, what are the team options with their restricted free agents? The teams have to give their players qualifying offers or they will become unrestricted free agents. That means if guys like:
Thorton
Iginla
Forsberg
Hejduk
Tanguay
Jason Smith
Zednik
Gomez
Niedermayer
Chara
Pronger
McCabe
are not offered contracts with at least the same pay as they got this year(and in most cases they will have to be offered a slight raise), they will become unrestricted free agents. If they are offered a contract though, a guy like Forsberg who would have to be qualified at $11 million would take up most of the team's salary. The team would only have $20 million left for other players.
It leaves teams with a very tough decision, give the players a qualifying offer and have them take up a huge chunk of your salary, or let them become UFA's and chance loosing them to a rival team.
B) The players would have to agree to get paid a total of $463 710 035 less than they got last year.
C) If I'm not mistaken any players that currently have contracts would have to be paid whatever amount of money they are signed for. Since they have signed legal contracts, the league won't legally be able to make them take less money. Here are some of the players that already have contracts. (Note: these are 2003/04 salaries, I couldn't find the 2005 ones, but they should be pretty close)
NEW YORK RANGERS
Jagr, Jaromir - $11,000,000.00
Holik, Robert - $8,850,000.00
Dunham, Michael - $3,300,000.00
Kasparaitis, Darius - $4,200,000.00
TOTAL: $27 350 000 +
MIGHTY DUCKS OF ANAHEIM
Fedorov, Sergei - $10,000,000.00
Prospal, Vaclav - $6,500,000.00
Ozolinsh, Sandis - $5,500,000.00
Giguere, Jean-Sebastien - $4,500,000.00
Sykora, Petr - $4,200,000.00
Rucchin, Steve - $2,975,000.00
TOTAL: $33 675 000 +
DETROIT RED WINGS
Lidstrom, Nicklas - $10,000,000.00
Joseph, Curtis - $8,000,000.00
Lang, Robert - $5,000,000.00
Hatcher, Derian - $5,000,000.00
Whitney, Ray - $3,000,000.00
McCarty, Darren - $2,250,000.00
TOTAL: $33 250 000 +
ST. LOUIS BLUES
Tkachuk, Keith - $10,000,000.00
Weight, Doug - $8,500,000.00
Demitra, Pavol - $6,500,000.00
TOTAL: $25 000 000 +
COLORADO AVALANCHE
Sakic, Joe - $9,880,939.00
Blake, Robert - $9,326,519.00
Foote, Adam - $4,300,000.00
TOTAL: $23 507 458 +
PHILADELPHIA FLYERS
LeClair, John - $9,000,000.00
Roenick, Jeremy - $7,500,000.00
Amonte, Anthony - $5,846,914.00
Desjardins, Eric - $4,000,000.00
Ragnarsson, Marcus - $3,500,000.00
Kapanen, Sami - $3,000,000.00
TOTAL: $32 846 914 +
TORONTO MAPLE LEAFS
Sundin, Mats - $9,000,000.00
Leetch, Brian - $6,600,000.00
Nolan, Owen - $6,500,000.00
Mogilny, Alexander - $5,500,000.00
Domi, Tie - $2,000,000.00
TOTAL: $29 600 000 +
I would keep listing teams but I think I've made my point. There would be a lot of teams that would have 3-6 players taking up their whole team salary
3-6 players on a team sure would create more offense k:
But that is why I believe there won't be a cap, if there is anything it will be a soft cap with luxury taxes.
Well I think it would be absolutely hilarious if the Leafs got rid of a couple of players like Kaberle and say Berg and they went to another team and played great so they could be included in the list with Sullivan (wasn't playing like that in Toronto) Modin (wasn't playing like that in Toronto) Cross (wasn't playing like that in Toronto)...players left and had success with systems that complimented them better for whatever reason, anyway...then we sign some players that everyone suggests would be a hole that needed to be filled only to turn out being a complete bust and in 3-4 years time we could all sit back in hindsight and say how acquiring said player(s) was a mistake and the Leafs should do this and sign this guy.....
__________________
Gretzky, the smartest man in hockey.:0pouce:
The " hard " or " soft " cap will be somewhere between the 30-40 mill. range, or so Bettman seems to want and thats what we keep hearing. Out of those teams you listed, consider this - How many of those teams have players that might not return? ( Pronger, Shanny etc.... ). What you're going to see, is teams like Florida, who have played under a " small market mentality ", be the buyers this summer. Why? They can afford it, and have the room. What did the Rangers do before the trade deadline? Dump salary ! What did the Caps do? Dump salary! Get it guys? They didn't do it just because, and if you think that TML, the biggest profit churning team that doesn't give back is going to go and sign even 2 of those UFA's, you're gravely mistaken. Do you think TML is going to pony up what ever kind of fine is imposed for teams that go over thier caps?
The " hard " or " soft " cap will be somewhere between the 30-40 mill. range, or so Bettman seems to want and thats what we keep hearing. Out of those teams you listed, consider this - How many of those teams have players that might not return?
They all have players that might not return, but I only listed ones that already have a contract. So if there was a hard cap of 31 million put into place those teams like Anahiem and Detroit would already be over budget. Even if there is a $40 million soft cap put into place these teams would only have about 7 million left for the other 14 roster spots.
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What you're going to see, is teams like Florida, who have played under a " small market mentality ", be the buyers this summer. Why? They can afford it, and have the room.
No they are not going to be big buyers. They were small market teams not because they wanted to, but because they had to. Just because a salary cap is put into place doesn't mean they are suddenly going to have more money to spend. Some of these small market teams that are loosing money probably won't even make it through the lockout.
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What did the Rangers do before the trade deadline? Dump salary ! What did the Caps do? Dump salary! Get it guys? They didn't do it just because
Even though the Rangers dumped salary, they still are already committed to $27 350 000 + on just 4 players. So if a cap is put into place, they won't be spending any more than any other team.
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and if you think that TML, the biggest profit churning team that doesn't give back is going to go and sign even 2 of those UFA's, you're gravely mistaken. Do you think TML is going to pony up what ever kind of fine is imposed for teams that go over thier caps?
I don't think the Leafs will have any problem signing players even if there is a salary cap, especially since the players will be available at a lower price then they previously were. The Leafs owners have never had a problem with spending money.
Here are the players I'd want the Leafs to pick up. Not all of them, but any from this list.
Craig Conroy
Sean Hill
Glen Wesley
hey, proud.... Wesley?!???
You do know most of those guys will be picked up, right? But, why is Wesley on the list?
Rover, you're right ... it would be hilarious because that is pure fantasy. The only former Leafs that you've mentioned that were mistakes to get rid of was Sullivan and Modin. They did show sparks and signs of being good players, too. They just didn't do it enough. Also, Quinn has a habit of being impatient with young players and being particularly favourable to certain ones for whatever reason. That's another topic, though. The difference here though is that Cross, Berg and whoever else fits into the category in which they practically never showed anything of being possibly good on other teams. If you are saying Cross is good on Edmonton, good for him and good for the Oilers! I've seen the odd game featuring the Oilers and I'm glad Cross is now playing over there.
Hey, it will be interesting to see what happens regarding a Cap. There was talk on TV (TSN) about what will happen to guys like Peter Forsberg. I also think there will be a soft cap. There will be concessions by the NHL to avoid a long lock out. The players can afford to not play as most of the veterans are financially secure although the younger ones would be hit hard. But, the NHL is dealing with major losses especially on the TV front. They lost money in their most recent TV deals and they really want to avoid a break in the season. They are already at a loss (no pun intended) on how to further the interest of hockey in the States and having no hockey during Winter will make it hard to get people to tune in when they resume again. That's why the rule changes and how the game looks once they resume will be important.
Another thing I just thought of while reading all your posts is regarding a definite pattern with Quinn and how he assesses and coaches players. Have any of you noticed how he tends to choose or prefer certain players over others? Yes, of course you have, you say. Well, he tends to prefer and play big gangly types or very physical guys (since he was that type of player). IF they are big but don't play physical, they discard 'em (RE: Modin and to a lesser extent, Jason Smith). He gave up on Markov and of course, Steve Sullivan who was too small for his type of game. He refuses to sit Antropov because he has a delirious fantasy that Antropov will suddenly blossom out of the blue into the type of forward Quinn has envisioned for him. This is pretty apparent and more fodder for those who think Quinn's time has come to clear the way for a new coach.
They all have players that might not return, but I only listed ones that already have a contract. So if there was a hard cap of 31 million put into place those teams like Anahiem and Detroit would already be over budget. Even if there is a $40 million soft cap put into place these teams would only have about 7 million left for the other 14 roster spots.
The word "re-structure" comes to mind. Teams like Anahiem and Detroit knew this was coming also PTBC, but they still decided to go out and sign the Hatchers and Prospals anyways. This isn't something that just " popped up ".
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Originally Posted by proudtobecanadian
No they are not going to be big buyers. They were small market teams not because they wanted to, but because they had to. Just because a salary cap is put into place doesn't mean they are suddenly going to have more money to spend. Some of these small market teams that are loosing money probably won't even make it through the lockout.
Funny, I was reading something that said the opposite. Panthers to Spend
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Originally Posted by proudtobecanadian
Even though the Rangers dumped salary, they still are already committed to $27 350 000 + on just 4 players. So if a cap is put into place, they won't be spending any more than any other team.
Yes they will. How many times have the Rangers proved that money is not a concern, they'll piss away more if they have to on what ever penalty is imposed for going over your cap.
Quote:
Originally Posted by proudtobecanadian
I don't think the Leafs will have any problem signing players even if there is a salary cap, especially since the players will be available at a lower price then they previously were. The Leafs owners have never had a problem with spending money.
You're right there. They have no poblem giving the Renbergs / Johannson (sp) / Reichels 3 Mill + to float. Do you remember the reason TML gave last summer when the decided to not sign Hatcher & de Vries etc? Free Agents Unlikely
Funny, I was reading something that said the opposite.
Panthers to Spend
They must have done pretty good this year then, because at the beginning of the year people were talking about Florida being on unstable financial ground and how the parent company of the Panthers had lost over $60 million the previous year.
Quote:
Yes they will. How many times have the Rangers proved that money is not a concern, they'll piss away more if they have to on what ever penalty is imposed for going over your cap.
They won't be spending more than any other big market team. All the other big market teams will be signing free agents just as much as the Rangers will. Besides, I thought the Rangers were going to try to rebuild with youth, if they were going to just go out and sign more veterans again during the off season, why did they trade all their players in the first place?
Quote:
You're right there. They have no poblem giving the Renbergs / Johannson (sp) / Reichels 3 Mill + to float. Do you remember the reason TML gave last summer when the decided to not sign Hatcher & de Vries etc?
Seems like a typical GM response to me. We'll evaluate our situation but if it's a bad buy we'll go with our youth. If the owners were worried about money, why would they have brought in Leetch, who again increased their payroll? Also like you said, they waste money on poor players. That shows me that it's not the owners not willing to spend money, it's the GM's that are spending the money poorly. The owners gave the GM's money, but instead of spending that money on a good player, they went out and wasted it on floaters. A bad job by the GM but not proof the owners are unwilling to spend money.
Well I think it would be absolutely hilarious if the Leafs got rid of a couple of players like Kaberle and say Berg and they went to another team and played great so they could be included in the list with Sullivan (wasn't playing like that in Toronto) Modin (wasn't playing like that in Toronto) Cross (wasn't playing like that in Toronto)...players left and had success with systems that complimented them better for whatever reason, anyway...then we sign some players that everyone suggests would be a hole that needed to be filled only to turn out being a complete bust and in 3-4 years time we could all sit back in hindsight and say how acquiring said player(s) was a mistake and the Leafs should do this and sign this guy.....
Actually, the year Steve Sullivan was...... left on waivers ( :roll: ), he was climbing in points by the season, and on the verge of having a breakout year that very year Pat Quinn abandoned him.
He only played 7 games and he's done? Why? Off to a slow start for the season? I think I've seen worse.
It could be said that he was about to be a bust, but let's hae a look here:
1998-99 Toronto - GP63 G20 A20 P40
1997-98 Toronto - GP63 G10 A18 P28
1996-97 Toronto - GP21 G5 A11 P16
1996-97 New Jersey - GP33 G8 A14 P22
1996-97 Total NJ/Tor - GP54 G13 A25 P38
Obviously, he was always getting better.
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As for Fredrik Modin:
2003-04 Tampa Bay - 82 29 28 57
2002-03 Tampa Bay - 76 17 23 40
2001-02 Tampa Bay - 54 14 17 31 2000-01 Tampa Bay - GP76 G32 A24 P56 1999-00 Tampa Bay - GP80 G22 A26 P48
1998-99 Toronto - GP67 G16 A15 P31
1997-98 Toronto - GP74 G16 A16 P32
1996-97 Toronto - GP76 G6 A7 P13
So again, Freddy was obviously going to turn out into something good. It's not secret that he was on his way up.
Take note that these states are just to show how they were doing offensively.
They really were turning out pretty good in Toronto, but sadly didn't get the nod from Quinn ahead of Jonas Hoglund and Robert Reichel
Again, Pat Quinn was either up to something or he just all of a sudden lost his mind letting go of both of those players. (Steve and Fredrik)
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Cory Cross on the otherhand, really isn't as good as people claim him to be.
I don't mind him on the Oilers, he won't make much of a difference on the Leafs anyway.
__________________ "It's not the way it's going to be. We have to be very, very patient and build this the right way. We have to go through a process. It may be painful. I hope it isn't. But we're prepared for all the bumps and pratfalls and potholes in the road ahead. I'm prepared for it anyway, or I wouldn't have come." - Ron Wilson, Head Coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs.
On offence, there are many options to be considered, but defencively, I think they go after more big this time.
Chris Pronger.
Then they trade for Adam Foote.
__________________ "It's not the way it's going to be. We have to be very, very patient and build this the right way. We have to go through a process. It may be painful. I hope it isn't. But we're prepared for all the bumps and pratfalls and potholes in the road ahead. I'm prepared for it anyway, or I wouldn't have come." - Ron Wilson, Head Coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs.
Who should the Leafs sign?
k: 
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