Remember Carter had not broken out and Kaberle had 3 not 2 years left on his bargain of a contract. He was worth more at this time last year than he is now.
True. I'm just not sure why the poster was calling Ferguson stupid when he got the deal in place and Kaberle nixed it. He really had no control over it, lol.
I wouldn't have made the deal for the 2nd overall pick either. It makes no sense to trade a building block like Schenn, plus a whole bunch of other assets, for a slightly bigger building block.
Schenn + Kadri + what you get for Kaberle could work out a lot better for the Leafs than only Hedman.
I'd rather have a balanced team than Hedman and a bunch of nobodies.
True. I'm just not sure why the poster was calling Ferguson stupid when he got the deal in place and Kaberle nixed it. He really had no control over it, lol.
Ya the Muskoka Five as they were known really threw a screw into Fergie.
Quote:
I wouldn't have made the deal for the 2nd overall pick either. It makes no sense to trade a building block like Schenn, plus a whole bunch of other assets, for a slightly bigger building block.
Schenn + Kadri + what you get for Kaberle could work out a lot better for the Leafs than only Hedman.
I'd rather have a balanced team than Hedman and a bunch of nobodies.
So true. Neither Tavares or Hedman are worth, the total of Schenn, Kadri and what Kabby will bring back. Even if what Kabs gets in return is lees than what some people think it will be around here. Schenn, Kadri and two 20th overall picks is going to take the Leafs alot further than just Tavares or Hedman alone.
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You ask Ovechkin if he would trade his Art Ross and Richard Trophies, to trade places with Sidney Crosby last June.
True. I'm just not sure why the poster was calling Ferguson stupid when he got the deal in place and Kaberle nixed it. He really had no control over it, lol.
I wouldn't have made the deal for the 2nd overall pick either. It makes no sense to trade a building block like Schenn, plus a whole bunch of other assets, for a slightly bigger building block.
Schenn + Kadri + what you get for Kaberle could work out a lot better for the Leafs than only Hedman.
I'd rather have a balanced team than Hedman and a bunch of nobodies.
Slightly bigger? We'll see what Duschene and Hedman do. Leaf fans love to over value, but hockey fans know talent on their team isn't necessarily as good as it seems.
Nobodies? Burke has been signing free agents out of college, he has lots of cap space, is Kadri that vital?
Burke is not that great of a GM, keep in mind when he arrived in Anaheim he came into an up-and-coming situation and filled in the blanks. In TO, he has to build from nothing which he has never done well historically. I like the type of players he drafted and I think it's a move in the right direction, but if he does something stupid like signing the Sedins, it will prove what I am already suspecting.
Your right about Ferg, but he was the dummy who gave all those guys the no trades that set the team back from getting those players.
Slightly bigger? We'll see what Duschene and Hedman do. Leaf fans love to over value, but hockey fans know talent on their team isn't necessarily as good as it seems.
Yeah, we'll see what they do. For all we know at this point, they could be busts, whereas Schenn already has a year of experience at the NHL level and was arguably the Leafs best defenseman last season.
Oh, and I'm not a Leafs fan, but okay.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMinnes
Nobodies? Burke has been signing free agents out of college, he has lots of cap space, is Kadri that vital?
Nobodies was a figure of speech and wasn't meant to be taken literally. Would you prefer if I said "Hedman and a team full of plugs" or "Hedman and a team full of entirely unproven NHLers"?
Either way, the fact remains that what the Lightning wanted for the 2nd pick was worth more than the 2nd pick itself. Remember, you would have had to over-pay to get it out of their hands.
Kadri alone isn't that vital, but Kadri + Schenn + Kaberle ++++ could outweigh the value of Duschene or Hedman.
If it were a matter of Kadri for Duschene or Hedman, Burke would have had no problem in moving the pick. He had a problem because Tampa and Colorado expected him to over-pay for the pick.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMinnes
Burke is not that great of a GM, keep in mind when he arrived in Anaheim he came into an up-and-coming situation and filled in the blanks. In TO, he has to build from nothing which he has never done well historically. I like the type of players he drafted and I think it's a move in the right direction, but if he does something stupid like signing the Sedins, it will prove what I am already suspecting.
Okay, I really don't care what Burke does in Toronto. I'm not a Leafs fan, but even I can see that having to over-pay for the 2nd pick could easily backfire. Nobody in the draft is a sure thing and there's no guarantee that even if they make it to the NHL, they reach their full potential.
Hedman could end up being a larger Luke Schenn for all you know. Minus the mean streak and toughness.
Oh, and he is trying to build a balanced team in Toronto right now. No sense in sacrificing what he's trying to build, and what will most likely be successful, for one player.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMinnes
Your right about Ferg, but he was the dummy who gave all those guys the no trades that set the team back from getting those players.
And if he didn't give Kaberle the no trade, he wouldn't have the under market value contract that Leafs fans love to talk about as an asset in the trading market.
If Burke could move those players and picks for the 1st overall pick and Tavares, he would have done it. If the price weren't so steep and possibly push the rebuilding process back, then I'm sure he would have traded for the 2nd or 3rd picks.
I would rather not have all my eggs in one basket.
To make the deal it could be like giving up 4 1st round picks for one player, if Kaberle can get 2 late 1st's in return.
Deals like that don't work out.
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You ask Ovechkin if he would trade his Art Ross and Richard Trophies, to trade places with Sidney Crosby last June.
Yeah, we'll see what they do. For all we know at this point, they could be busts, whereas Schenn already has a year of experience at the NHL level and was arguably the Leafs best defenseman last season.
Oh, and I'm not a Leafs fan, but okay.
Nobodies was a figure of speech and wasn't meant to be taken literally. Would you prefer if I said "Hedman and a team full of plugs" or "Hedman and a team full of entirely unproven NHLers"?
Either way, the fact remains that what the Lightning wanted for the 2nd pick was worth more than the 2nd pick itself. Remember, you would have had to over-pay to get it out of their hands.
Kadri alone isn't that vital, but Kadri + Schenn + Kaberle ++++ could outweigh the value of Duschene or Hedman.
If it were a matter of Kadri for Duschene or Hedman, Burke would have had no problem in moving the pick. He had a problem because Tampa and Colorado expected him to over-pay for the pick.
Okay, I really don't care what Burke does in Toronto. I'm not a Leafs fan, but even I can see that having to over-pay for the 2nd pick could easily backfire. Nobody in the draft is a sure thing and there's no guarantee that even if they make it to the NHL, they reach their full potential.
Hedman could end up being a larger Luke Schenn for all you know. Minus the mean streak and toughness.
Oh, and he is trying to build a balanced team in Toronto right now. No sense in sacrificing what he's trying to build, and what will most likely be successful, for one player.
And if he didn't give Kaberle the no trade, he wouldn't have the under market value contract that Leafs fans love to talk about as an asset in the trading market.
If Burke could move those players and picks for the 1st overall pick and Tavares, he would have done it. If the price weren't so steep and possibly push the rebuilding process back, then I'm sure he would have traded for the 2nd or 3rd picks.
It comes down to Schenn's value, it seems I am one of only a few that see him being only a piece of a team, regardless of his experience. I believe Schenn is on a level slightly higher than Jason Smith or Luke Richardson. But again, time will tell, let's reopen this thread in 3 years and see where Schenn, Hedman, Duschene, Kessel and Kadri are.
For the Record Hedman has been playing in the Swedish elite league wish is not to far behind the NHL and a few steps above Juniors, so saying that Schenn has an exp edge is False imo, Plus Hedman can shut down the opposing teams top line and offensive upside which schenn doesn't really have much of.
For all of you thinking that Burke was trading up to 2nd to get Hedamn are completley wrong. If you were actually following the whole time you would know that at one time Burke said the Islanders were planning on picking Hedman first not Tavares meaning the Leafs would get Tavares.
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how many leaf fans does it take to screw in a lightbulb? 1 while all the others talk about how much better the old one was...we all have faults GO LEAFS GO
SO Burkie got his monster. Burkie also has the Leafs with about 10 guys who can play Defense in the NHL. None of which are a #1 D-man. So he has the Leafs D-corps looking very much like the Forward group, no star quality, but lots of decent depth.
Show me the team that has an elite player that they would move for a #2 D-man, and a group of young players to fill out their 2nd and 3rd lines, and I will send you a package you can't refuse.
The only guys I wouldn't move at this point are Schenn and Tlusty. They are still too young to know just how far they can go, and Tlusty did pretty good in the AHL last year. I would like to hold onto White, Grabo, Hagman and Mitchell but they are some of the assets that would get the biggest return.
I just don't see a buyer out there that would give the Leafs a young, under 28, superstar for Kaberle and a handfull of prospects. I am not talking a 30 goal winger, but a player who can and has put up a PPG numbers like Mats used to.
Lecavalier, Kovalchuk, Heatley, Briere, all have been ppg players. All for one reason or another might possibly be available.
To TB I would offer
To TB:
Kaberle
Stajan
Kulemin
Frogren/Stralman - Swede conection for Hagman. Ohlund only other on team.
1st 2010
To TOR:
Lecavalier
Ranger
Depending on the mindset of the TB GM I don't know. I know some of you around here aren't high on Lecavalier so you might think it is a bargain. Other who think Lecavalier is a top 5 center in the league might think TB is getting ripped off. All I care about is TOR having enough assets to acquire one of these top players.
Other than Heatley. Don't want Heatley.
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LEAFS TANK NATION: Well we Can't Tank, we got no 1st round Draft Pick.
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Sig. Courtesy of VICE.
You ask Ovechkin if he would trade his Art Ross and Richard Trophies, to trade places with Sidney Crosby last June.
SO Burkie got his monster. Burkie also has the Leafs with about 10 guys who can play Defense in the NHL. None of which are a #1 D-man. So he has the Leafs D-corps looking very much like the Forward group, no star quality, but lots of decent depth.
Show me the team that has an elite player that they would move for a #2 D-man, and a group of young players to fill out their 2nd and 3rd lines, and I will send you a package you can't refuse.
The only guys I wouldn't move at this point are Schenn and Tlusty. They are still too young to know just how far they can go, and Tlusty did pretty good in the AHL last year. I would like to hold onto White, Grabo, Hagman and Mitchell but they are some of the assets that would get the biggest return.
I just don't see a buyer out there that would give the Leafs a young, under 28, superstar for Kaberle and a handfull of prospects. I am not talking a 30 goal winger, but a player who can and has put up a PPG numbers like Mats used to.
Lecavalier, Kovalchuk, Heatley, Briere, all have been ppg players. All for one reason or another might possibly be available.
To TB I would offer
To TB:
Kaberle
Stajan
Kulemin
Frogren/Stralman - Swede conection for Hagman. Ohlund only other on team.
1st 2010
To TOR:
Lecavalier
Ranger
Depending on the mindset of the TB GM I don't know. I know some of you around here aren't high on Lecavalier so you might think it is a bargain. Other who think Lecavalier is a top 5 center in the league might think TB is getting ripped off. All I care about is TOR having enough assets to acquire one of these top players.
Other than Heatley. Don't want Heatley.
TB can't trade Lecavalier anymore atleast not without him waving his NTC now, which kicked in as ov July 1st.
Burke a Fool at the Moment
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