I sense a strong sense of some people getting banned in the future because of this thread.
I hate arguing and debating when people ignore simple facts and speak out of their ass.
Oh, btw Wings.
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If some feel that they don't have anything to add to the topic, they don't have to read it, let alone respond. I don't see why some would get banned over any topic, let alone this one.
__________________ "Too bad for Mats, he could have been playing here" ~ Robert Lang.
Let's consider the Flyers were picked to finish in the same bracket or worse. Let's remember, all the "experts" except Melrose picked the Habs to beat the Flyers in that series. That team may be young, but they have some stud players. The Flyers are in no way an older or more experienced team. The rosters in their playoff matchup were virtually identical in playoff experience.
I'll give the Habs credit for having a good year, but at the same time, did anyone expect Ottawa to completely tank, Buffalo to be less than average after how well they played the year before, Toronto be a perpetual mess and their goaltending to suck it up, or Boston to not really be anything special?
The more I think about it, the Northeast is looking more and more like the Southeast of the last 6 or 7 years.
I understand what you're saying but it doesn't change the fact that the Habs had a very successful season. Let's not forget that they finished first in the entire NHL in goals for and were the top dogs in the entire Eastern conference. Who would have thought?
__________________ "Too bad for Mats, he could have been playing here" ~ Robert Lang.
I understand what you're saying but it doesn't change the fact that the Habs had a very successful season. Let's not forget that they finished first in the entire NHL in goals for and were the top dogs in the entire Eastern conference. Who would have thought?
But at the same time, they were expected to manhandle both the Flyers and the Bruins and they nearly lost to the Bruins before being tossed by the Flyers. This is a case where simply looking at the number of goals and the power play stats are misleading.
Sure, they had a good record, but how did it really measure up when considering the competition? Between the Flyers and Bruins, the Habs were 12-0 in the regular season and then went 5-7 in the playoffs to those two teams. One terrible tripping call in OT against the Bruins that led to a Habs win might have been the difference between the Habs beating the Bruins.
I think the Atlantic Division is one of the toughest divisions in the league as 3/5 teams regularly make the playoffs and there have been several times 4/5 have. Since 2000-2001, no division in the West has ever sent 4/5 teams to the playoffs. It's happened each of the last two season for the Atlantic and it's happened a couple other times in the Northeast a number of years ago. By the second round this year, the only non-Atlantic team left was Montreal by default because Boston and Montreal played in the first round and one of them had to advance.
Montreal played well in the regular season, but I think the credit they received was a bit bloated for what they actually did. Had the Flyers not gone on that 10-game losing streak, they might have won the conference. They only finished 9 points behind the Habs. Had they split the 4 game series and not lost 10 in a row, the Flyers would won the conference. Had Ottawa not completely fallen apart, they would have won the conference.
A convenient series of events fell into place that allowed the Habs to do what they did. When the reality of the playoffs started, it showed how things really were. Nothing against the Habs, but I don't think they were as good as their record showed and their total goals for was only 1 better than Ottawa and only 5 better than Detroit. They scored 5 more than Detroit did over the season, but Detroit gave up 38 fewer. Detroit had the 3rd best goals for, but the biggest differential in goals for vs. goals against at nearly 1 a goal per game better than the opposition; thus, the best record in the league and the Stanley Cup.
__________________
"The Marines will never disappoint the expectations of of their country - never!" - Capt. C. W. Morgan, US Navy
"I have just returned from visiting the Marines at the front, and there is not a finer fighting organization in the world." - Gen. Douglas MacArthur, US Army
But at the same time, they were expected to manhandle both the Flyers and the Bruins and they nearly lost to the Bruins before being tossed by the Flyers. This is a case where simply looking at the number of goals and the power play stats are misleading.
Sure, they had a good record, but how did it really measure up when considering the competition? Between the Flyers and Bruins, the Habs were 12-0 in the regular season and then went 5-7 in the playoffs to those two teams. One terrible tripping call in OT against the Bruins that led to a Habs win might have been the difference between the Habs beating the Bruins.
I think the Atlantic Division is one of the toughest divisions in the league as 3/5 teams regularly make the playoffs and there have been several times 4/5 have. Since 2000-2001, no division in the West has ever sent 4/5 teams to the playoffs. It's happened each of the last two season for the Atlantic and it's happened a couple other times in the Northeast a number of years ago. By the second round this year, the only non-Atlantic team left was Montreal by default because Boston and Montreal played in the first round and one of them had to advance.
Montreal played well in the regular season, but I think the credit they received was a bit bloated for what they actually did. Had the Flyers not gone on that 10-game losing streak, they might have won the conference. They only finished 9 points behind the Habs. Had they split the 4 game series and not lost 10 in a row, the Flyers would won the conference. Had Ottawa not completely fallen apart, they would have won the conference.
A convenient series of events fell into place that allowed the Habs to do what they did. When the reality of the playoffs started, it showed how things really were. Nothing against the Habs, but I don't think they were as good as their record showed and their total goals for was only 1 better than Ottawa and only 5 better than Detroit. They scored 5 more than Detroit did over the season, but Detroit gave up 38 fewer. Detroit had the 3rd best goals for, but the biggest differential in goals for vs. goals against at nearly 1 a goal per game better than the opposition; thus, the best record in the league and the Stanley Cup.
I disagree. Because they proved everyone wrong during the regular season doesn't mean that they under-achieved in the playoffs. The fact is that the Flyers were dominated in every game but game one of that series and were lucky to get out of that series. The lack of "natural" scoring ability, the fact that the referees decided to call the game differently than during the regular season and some questionable goaltending is what killed them, not the Flyers' play. Proof is that the Pens, who have that finish around the net, didn't have any problems with the Flyers.
Gainey is recognizing that and is taking the steps this spring to fix this lack of natural scoring ability in acquiring Tanguay and making a serious pitch for Sundin.
The experience the young Habs acquired will be extremely beneficial in the seasons to come... Having said that, I still think that we need a top 4 defenseman as Markov, Hamrlik and Komisarek are as good as they come, but there's a big drop after that although Gorges has played very well for us.
__________________ "Too bad for Mats, he could have been playing here" ~ Robert Lang.
I disagree. Because they proved everyone wrong during the regular season doesn't mean that they under-achieved in the playoffs.
Sure it does. The Flyers weren't really expected to make the playoffs when the season started. When they got hot and played really well in the first half and were on pace for a 40-something point improvement, expectations changed. John Stevens was getting close to being fired and people were calling for him to be fired when they lost 10 in a row after a previous 6-game losing streak.
They finished strong going into the playoffs and most figured they could beat the Caps. No one picked them to beat the Habs. I thought if they had played as well against Pittsburgh as they did against the Habs, they'd have a chance at beating the Penguins. Didn't happen. It wasn't an underachievement, but it was an unacceptable performance in the conference finals by the Flyers. I'm happy they went that far, but I wasn't happy with how poorly they played. At the same time, I'll weigh in and consider they were basically missing their top 4 defensemen and call it a good season.
The Habs won the conference and were expected to go deep in the playoffs. They were expected to just push Boston right out of the way and they struggled with them, badly. They were expected to just toss the Flyers right out, perhaps in a sweep, most picked them to win in 5.
The Habs got more power plays, more 5-on-3s, a full 5-minute major powerplay, etc. They outshot the Flyers in 4 out of 5 games as they should when they have the advantage on the power play. It wasn't that the Flyers were outplayed. The Flyers finished their chances and Habs didn't. The Flyers played a very defense first system and were conservative in the risks they took. Very rarely did you see Habs odd-man rushes. It was almost always the Flyers on those rushes and they scored on them frequently. The power plays were in favor the Habs and they got more of the calls than the Flyers did. The officiating was clearly in favor of the Habs. The problem was simply this: Price didn't play well and the Habs couldn't finish where the Flyers did. The Flyers had a better power play success rate and Biron was amazing. That's what got the Flyers through, their finishing of their chances and Biron stopping the Habs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JL
The fact is that the Flyers were dominated in every game but game one of that series and were lucky to get out of that series.
I disagree. When a goaltender stands on his head and plays as well as Biron did, it's not luck. It's called doing it right and doing it well. It wasn't luck the Red Wings won the Cup. They executed well and followed their game plan. The Flyers did that against the Habs and prevented what drove the Habs offense and power play - odd man rushes and offensive output from the defense. The Flyers shut down the Habs speed through the neutral zone, shut down the rushes by the defense, and kept most of the Habs shots to the outside. They executed well against the Habs plain and simple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JL
The lack of "natural" scoring ability, the fact that the referees decided to call the game differently than during the regular season and some questionable goaltending is what killed them, not the Flyers' play.
What's natural scoring? Kovalev not showing up in several games? Not getting the finishes when they had their chances?
What calls were different in that game by the refs?
Questionable goaltending? It was down right awful. Price did everything he could, but that glove was holier than the Pope.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JL
Proof is that the Pens, who have that finish around the net, didn't have any problems with the Flyers.
Wrong, it was the Flyers missing Timonen and Coburn and Smith playing with 2 separated shoulders and Hatcher getting fluid drained from his knee on a daily basis. It was Umberger not coming up with 8 goals in 5 games. The Flyers were two different teams from the Montreal to Pittsburgh series.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JL
Gainey is recognizing that and is taking the steps this spring to fix this lack of natural scoring ability in acquiring Tanguay and making a serious pitch for Sundin.
We'll see. If Price doesn't improve, no amount of scoring will help them. You can't count on scoring 5 goals/game to make up for Price's performance in the series against the Flyers.
I'm still confused on what natural scoring is...I would think Kovalev, Plekanec, the Kostitsyns, Higgins, etc can shoot the puck pretty well. There were 7 players with 16+ goals on that team. 4 with 26+. Not sure what you're looking for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JL
The experience the young Habs acquired will be extremely beneficial in the seasons to come... Having said that, I still think that we need a top 4 defenseman as Markov, Hamrlik and Komisarek are as good as they come, but there's a big drop after that although Gorges has played very well for us.
I think this statement could be made of any of the top teams in the East. How good will the Flyers be this coming year with Gagne back, Claude Giroux with the Flyers, add that mid-level defenseman into the mix with the Eminger pick up and all the playoff experience the young guys got? How good will Mike Richards and Jeff Carter be this year? How much better will Danny Briere be with consistent linemates? How good will Biron be now that he has a deep playoff run under his belt? I don't see any reason why the Habs, the Penguins, or the Flyers don't win the conference this year, but that's assuming Ottawa is still not firing away the way they were to start the season. That's also assuming the Penguins can make up for the loss of Hossa and the guys they gave up to get Hossa and the guys who simply won't be back this year.
__________________
"The Marines will never disappoint the expectations of of their country - never!" - Capt. C. W. Morgan, US Navy
"I have just returned from visiting the Marines at the front, and there is not a finer fighting organization in the world." - Gen. Douglas MacArthur, US Army
Dude relax , its 5 games , its not like be cause we lost those 5 games we are toast for the next 5 years.
Carey Price will rebound and our line-up is getting better.
If Sundin is coming we got more offensive depth than the Flyers which is spectacular since they have plenty but the differance is we have a good defensive and Martin Biron will never play at that level again ( vs the habs ) while Carey Price ranked the 3rd best prospect on the planet , a 20 YEARS OLD rookie who managed to take the #1 job in Montreal , picked 5th overall while he should have been picked 2nd by the stupid Ducks , will rebound and he's gonna be a force.
But hey , take a look at my thread Division Winner in the NHL forum , I still think the Flyers are gonna finish 2nd in the East and win their division before Pittsburgh.
I think Pittsburgh had a Window this year , and in the next 2 years they'll remember this line-up as an amazing one , and now they gotta wait for soem good prospect to come fill some hole for cheap before having another window.Sure they'll make the playoff and you never know , but they wont be powerful as this year ( the end ) IMO.
Dude relax , its 5 games , its not like be cause we lost those 5 games we are toast for the next 5 years.
I never said anything about the future. If anything, I think the Habs can get better, even without adding Sundin. Even prior to adding Tanguay, this team is just going to grow and get better. I’m going to be watching for Plekanec this year.
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Originally Posted by CrAcK_N_CoKe
Carey Price will rebound and our line-up is getting better.
Hopefully he will, but there is no guarantee. Some goaltenders just aren’t playoff performers. I’m not saying that’s the case with Price, but we don’t know it isn’t for sure. Look at Roman Cechmanek. He was unbelievable during the regular season, but just plain sucked in the playoffs. He never had GAA over 2.05 in three years with the Flyers, but couldn’t get anywhere in the playoffs.
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Originally Posted by CrAcK_N_CoKe
If Sundin is coming we got more offensive depth than the Flyers which is spectacular since they have plenty
Will the Habs have better offensive depth? The Flyers had 7 20+ goal scorers going into the playoffs. Sure, Prospal is gone, but hopefully Gagne won’t be out all year and Giroux will tear things up. Downie won’t miss more than a quarter of the season with a suspension and Upshall had 14 goals in 61 games. Maybe he gets to 20 as well with a full season. It completely depends on the rest of free agency.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAcK_N_CoKe
but the differance is we have a good defensive and Martin Biron will never play at that level again ( vs the habs )
Says who? Why can’t Biron play like that again, against anyone? If you truly believe that, it’s just plain arrogance as you don’t have a crystal ball. It’d be the same as me saying Price will never win a Cup because he sucks on his glove side.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAcK_N_CoKe
while Carey Price ranked the 3rd best prospect on the planet , a 20 YEARS OLD rookie who managed to take the #1 job in Montreal , picked 5th overall while he should have been picked 2nd by the stupid Ducks , will rebound and he's gonna be a force.
If he’s a prospect, why is he playing in the NHL? If you’re in the NHL on a full-time basis, you’re not a prospect. You’re just an NHLer. Oh, and he was handed the #1 spot. I wouldn’t say he earned it as many said he still needed a guy like Huet around, a veteran to help him through the tough spots. Huet was traded out of town leaving Price as the number 1 by default. Huet and Price had nearly identical numbers in Montreal. Price was seen as the future and Montreal gambled on getting something of value out of a guy who was going to be a UFA at the end of the year. If they wanted Price to be the number 1, Huet wasn’t going to sign to stay as a backup. It was a business decision, nothing more.
__________________
"The Marines will never disappoint the expectations of of their country - never!" - Capt. C. W. Morgan, US Navy
"I have just returned from visiting the Marines at the front, and there is not a finer fighting organization in the world." - Gen. Douglas MacArthur, US Army
I agree some players are not build for the playoff , but winning the gold medal in Jr. and the Calder cup playing his first games as a pro in the END of that season in the AHL is not exactly the sign of a playoff choker.
I agree some players are not build for the playoff , but winning the gold medal in Jr. and the Calder cup playing his first games as a pro in the END of that season in the AHL is not exactly the sign of a playoff choker.
No, but bad players at the AHL and junior levels don't get to the NHL to begin with. If he sucked in juniors or the AHL, then he wouldn't even get an opportunity to play for the Habs. I have no reason to think Price won't be fine, but he just hasn't proven himself yet.
__________________
"The Marines will never disappoint the expectations of of their country - never!" - Capt. C. W. Morgan, US Navy
"I have just returned from visiting the Marines at the front, and there is not a finer fighting organization in the world." - Gen. Douglas MacArthur, US Army
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